The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
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Does anyone feel competent to assess https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/vaccine-heart-damage-and-the-warnings-brushed-aside/ ?

I know the author was appointed a "medical and science correspondent" without the burden of first acquiring any relevant degree and that his career as such was not without controversy or criticism. I also realise that "The Conservative Woman" does not necessarily apply rigorous editorial scrutiny. Since I am already aware of those warning bells, ideally, can we keep comments related to the papers he discusses please?
As you know Dog, I am not a cardiologist, so I'm not offering any competency on the topic that is not widely available in published journals.

I do, however, read dozens of research papers and articles in medical journals during the year.......so I can offer a comment on the structure and the logic of the article.

1) I didnt finish the article. The structure and the pace of reasoning was insufficiently impressive to warrant my time. Maybe I will come back to it to see if anything interesting comes later. In layman's terms, it did not say much interesting in the first third of the article , and good work has usually got down to business by then.

2) The title did not relate to the content. "Warnings brushed aside"? Even before EUA, the phase 3 trails identified myocarditis as a possible side effect, and in the USA, the vaccine candidate is required to wait for 30 minutes before leaving for observation of myocarditis.

3) There are several, well edited and fact filled articles and studies on the cardiovascular impact of covid and covid vaccines. Does this article offer anything new? Well his main thesis is that the occurrence of undetected myocarditis and cardiovascular disease following vaccination is much more prevalent than reported in the other studies, and will affect vacinees later in life..

4) He offers two arguments/data points to support his thesis.
(i) Cardiologists are developing protocols to diagnose and treat myocarditis related to covid and covid vaccinations, so it must be a common occurrence. ".. the problem is clearly now common enough to require a new, standardised protocol for managing this ‘apparently novel condition". That is a nonsense argument. Specialists develop protocols to treat incredibly obscure and rare conditions all the time. There is almost a duty if you are involved in treating a rare condition to write it up. Covid protocols have been a big thing in the last 3 years , and I cannot imagine this not being codified. It neither means it is common or rare. This clearly frivolous argument sounded alarm bells and impacted the credibility of the rest of the article.
(ii) Other studies demonstrate it is common.
His first link was to a Japanese study which did not support his argument. In a sample population of 99, 834, 543 vaccinated individuals(aka 91% of Japanese population), they discovered 38 cases that met their criteria. End of interest from my point of view.
Incidentally, diving deeper, the reference population was not an unvaccinated population during the pandemic. The reference population was the general population of japan during 3 years prior to the pandemic. First the age groups did not match up . Secondly you are not comparing the risk of myocarditis from getting vaccinated vs not getting vaccinated , you are comparing the incidence of myocraditis in the general population of Japan prior to the pandemic compared to the risk (based on 91% of the population) of getting myocarditis during the pandemic. It would be unsurprising to discover that the incidence of death due to myocarditis increased in a period when we are keenly monitoring for myocarditis and even more unsurprising that myocarditis increased during the pandemic.
I noted two interesting factors from the study. (i) The incidence of overall post vaccination myocarditis mortality in the japanese population was much higher than the US, UK and other studies. This is surprising because Japan has an elder demographic than elsewhere and vaccine related myocarditis has proven to be age related in our populations with a greater risk to young males. (ii) In contrast the japanese study observed elder populations suffering from myocarditis mortality. This reasons for this became clear later in the study. The study did not seek to identify co-morbidity. Thus the 38 observed deaths from a population of 99.8 million included deaths from persons suffering from myocarditis prior to the vaccination and it included elderly people with pre-existing heart conditions. This did not invalidate the issues that the study was contemplating but it meant the study did not support Neville Hodgkinson's thesis.
His second link was to an article in The Daily Sceptic. No Comment for obvious reasons
The Third Study he highlighted was a population of 300 teenagers in Thailand with no link!
The Fourth Study was the musings of a Canadian Family doctor about how viral spike proteins work......with no link.

I lost interest after that. Sorry.
 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,247
1,800
South Coast, UK
Thanks. "There are several, well edited and fact filled articles and studies on the cardiovascular impact of covid and covid vaccines." Could you suggest a couple? Ideally - though this may be asking too much - something readable by someone who isn't medically trained but can follow a statistical argument.

I realise its a journalistic piece rather than a scientific essay or review. I read plenty of those, in another field.
 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,678
2,135
Thanks. "There are several, well edited and fact filled articles and studies on the cardiovascular impact of covid and covid vaccines." Could you suggest a couple? Ideally - though this may be asking too much - something readable by someone who isn't medically trained but can follow a statistical argument.

I realise its a journalistic piece rather than a scientific essay or review. I read plenty of those, in another field.
That would have to be a weekend project. I stayed current and up to date when the FDA Panel reviewed the data before approving the booster. Since then , more data has been published. I maintain a passing interest rather than a systematic interest. I receive the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine (aka YJBM) because I am on staff with Yale. I recall an article this summer that reviewed the literature and the cases . I honestly cant remember much detail and I dont have the copy here in my office. I am biased in favor of YJBM but there are other more influential publications that have covered the topic.

I have a generalized opinion based on what I have read but the topic has become so politicized that Im keeping it to myself unless I can provide links. I wish others would do the same.
 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,678
2,135
It looks like that has full-text public access, so if you were able to suggest an article or too, I could access.
I'm on call today and something has come up. So gotta grab coffee and go.

You can use pubmed.

It is the June issue. Try opening that link for overview.

List of articles here. Several interesting titles.

This one looks relevant to the Myocarditis question..

But there are lots of titles that look sufficiently controversial to keep everyone fighting for several more pages of this thread:
Distorted Human Decision-Making as a Critical Aspect of Pandemic Planning and Preparedness
Myocarditis Following COVID-19 Vaccination: A Systematic Review of Case Reports
COVID-19, Vaccination, and Conspiracies: A Micro-Level Qualitative Study .

Feast yourselves!

I suspect the June journal had the highest number of clicks ever :)
 
Right on the thread subject, wife and I got our third booster yesterday, the Pfizer bivalent. Am I counting right, two initial shot of Pfizer, two Moderna booster and that last Pfizer booster, five total? Just being specific for the slow learners over here.

Other than my wife sore arm, the nurse was not that good, no side effect, except developing a taste for brain.
 

Chief Stipe

Member
456
46
But is it safe for the parasites who rely on everyone else to get vaccinated?
Bit if a weird statement coming from a Doctor. But then you are a big pharma shareholder aren't you?

BTW I caught Covid from a triple vaccinated person so relying on the vaccinated doesnt work too well. Are you suggesting I'm now an immune parasite?
 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,678
2,135
That's quite a claim. You have a link for that from somewhere reputable?
The most prescribed safe drug is kind of an oxymoron.
It is a common urban legend that Ivermection is the most prescribed drug in the world...but if I had to guess I think the most prescribed drugs in the world (based on number of patients prescribed ) would probably be Acetaminophen or Atorvastatin. That would be a really hard number to get. But if we include OTC and really safe drugs that do not need a prescription you have to turn to Aspirin or Ibuprofen.
 

00seven

James "Grumpy" Bond
3,231
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Blue marble
The most prescribed safe drug is kind of an oxymoron.
It is a common urban legend that Ivermection is the most prescribed drug in the world...but if I had to guess I think the most prescribed drugs in the world (based on number of patients prescribed ) would probably be Acetaminophen or Atorvastatin. That would be a really hard number to get. But if we include OTC and really safe drugs that do not need a prescription you have to turn to Aspirin or Ibuprofen.
I was working at our local boat yard and we had an American doctor haul his timber cruising boat out. He had named the boat "Aspro 2". I commented on the odd boat name and he said that's how he got the boat, telling people to take two aspirin & call if the problem persists.
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
16,541
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Outer Banks
BTW I caught Covid from a triple vaccinated person so relying on the vaccinated doesnt work too well. Are you suggesting I'm now an immune parasite?
I wonder how many friends you passed it on to of the millions who died?

I'd be more tolerant if you actually had a sensical reason for your behavior rather than a political one.
 
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Chief Stipe

Member
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I wonder how many friends you passed it on to of the millions who died?

I'd be more tolerant if you actually had a sensical reason for your behavior rather than a political one.
My reasons weren't political. They are based on a thorough reading of scientific papers and the data that shows I'm not at risk of serious illness from Coivd.

When I caught Covid and tested positive I stayed isolated and very much doubt I passed it onto anyone else.
 


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