The Third Booster Shot Debate - Are U going to get the booster?

[Steam Flyer]

Given all the statistics I've read up until now, that doesn't seem to make any sense.
They seem to be saying that of vaccinated 18-29 year olds, only one out of 30,000 could be expected to be hospitalized with Covid 19.

That doesn't sound right, the basic statistic I recall is 0.2% of deaths is people under 25, which is 2 per 1,000. So in this age group, you're looking at 60 people DYING of Covid out of a 30,000 control group, not just being hospitalized.

 

[Raz'r]

Not so sure about the source:
Are SSRN papers peer reviewed?


SSRN does not peer review submissions. A submission that is not part of the worldwide scholarly discourse in its field is not eligible for public distribution through the SSRN eLibrary and SSRN's search engine. NOTE: If you are submitting on behalf of an author, add yourself as an “Assistant” in the Author section.

 

[BeSafe]

Given all the statistics I've read up until now, that doesn't seem to make any sense.
They seem to be saying that of vaccinated 18-29 year olds, only one out of 30,000 could be expected to be hospitalized with Covid 19.

That doesn't sound right, the basic statistic I recall is 0.2% of deaths is people under 25, which is 2 per 1,000. So in this age group, you're looking at 60 people DYING of Covid out of a 30,000 control group, not just being hospitalized.

From the Washington State Department of Health (https://doh.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf)


Page 9,

Only 2.7 people / 100,000 in the age group 12-34 (which obviously is a larger set) of people vaccinated with the primary series end up in the hospital, let alone dying. So that's 1 in 37,000.

Only 11.5 people / 100,000 in the age group 65+ are dying right now from COVID, assuming they've received the primary series - or 1 in 8700.

Mortality rates are way down. Getting the primary series is still very good. Getting follow up boosters has rapidly diminishing returns, particularly in healthy young people.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Right, but you're looking at numbers factoring the vaccination status. Chief Dumbass is trying to "prove" that young people are better off unvaccinated... or in this case, unboosted (ot's not clear if he realizes the difference).

Which could be true, if the risks were somewhat more skewed toward the elderly. They are steeply skewed, but not -that- far.

1 in every 331 USAnians has now died of Covid. By the rough figures I just ran, one in every ~4,000 19-to-35-year-olds has died. That gives them a slightly better than 10/1 advantage just by age, and it wouldn't be surprising if the vaccine conferred a better immune response on younger people. BTW I personally know 4 people in this age group who have died of Covid so that's the anecdata...

 

[BeSafe]

I'm not particularly trying to defend Chief, but in this particular statement:

"

Obviously more than you have.

Have you read the latest research from Oxford Univeristy that shows Unviersity students shouldn't get the booster shot as the risk of vaccine harm is greater than any benefit?

He's somewhat right in conclusion, if not in details. I didn't find anything from Oxford that is recent. I linked what I found assessing the situation in late 2022 along with supporting data from seem to be credible sources.

The data does suggest that forcing University Students - at least in the US - whom are presumably 18-29 - to get BOOSTED seems to be counterproductive.

NO ONE is better off UNVACCINATED. There is NO cohort to whom THAT statement applies.

 

[Steam Flyer]

I'm not particularly trying to defend Chief, but in this particular statement:

"


He's somewhat right in conclusion, if not in details. I didn't find anything from Oxford that is recent. I linked what I found assessing the situation in late 2022 along with supporting data from seem to be credible sources.

The data does suggest that forcing University Students - at least in the US - whom are presumably 18-29 - to get BOOSTED seems to be counterproductive.

NO ONE is better off UNVACCINATED. There is NO cohort to whom THAT statement applies.

I'd like to see the actual data. It doesn't make sense to me, in a cohort in which one in 4,000 have died, that the the odds are less than one in 300,000 will be hospitalized without the booster.

Unless a lot of them just drop without ever being taken to a hospital.

There's a pretty big disjoint in these number sets, I am not trying to claim the Oxford info is flat wrong.

 

[BeSafe]

According to the data in the report, about 1 in 9000 individuals who are unvaccinated in the age group 12-34 are ending up in the hospital. With vaccination, that rate drops to 1 in 37000 - the lowest rate for any group. None are close to 1 in 300,000. That's essentially 8x lower that the best rate from any demographic. Not sure what you're looking at.

To me, the obvious answer to the "1 in 315" number is that many Americans have gotten COVID and never noticed, PARTICULARLY in that 12-34 age demographic. There just aren't that many true 'patient zeros' left if the wild to BE infected. Most of the folks I know who have refused to get vaccinated DID get COVID already. They've run the gauntlet, without the vaccine training wheels. If they get COVID again, they're much more likely to have a mild case, even though they are 'unvaccinated'. So it totally makes sense that the rate of severe complications is decreasing over time for both the vaccinated and the 'unvaccinated'.

I can't find the report that Chief was referencing - this data is from the Washington DOH, and the paper is from a host of authors from all over.

 

[spankoka]

I got my #4 jab the other day. Off to Japan and Thailand in 2023!

 

[Rain Man]

I got my #4 jab the other day. Off to Japan and Thailand in 2023!

Have fun! Be careful. Based on my recent experience, you can quite easily get covid after 4 jabs, and while you won't go to hospital, you may have a very bad few days. Best advice: hunker down, don't suffer, treat the symptoms, get lots of sleep. I'm on day 8, and left the house for a walk for the first time yesterday. I am still symptomatic, but not terribly so.

Maybe see if your doc can cut you a script for Paxlovid before you go.

 

[spankoka]

I have experience with the health care system of Japan-both good and bad. As I understand it, in Thailand just about everything is OTC-so you just play doctor with yourself.

 

[EYESAILOR]

This isn't from Oxford - it's from the US.

I think the Chef said he studied science not Geography.

Don't trip him up by asking him where Wuhan is. That would not be fair.

But back on topic.....Im not aware that many US universities are insisting on booster mandates beyond the booster given in late 2021 early 2022.

 

[EYESAILOR]

View attachment 558594

I am no fan of EcoHealth Alliance . I think there were some sizeable conflicts of interest at the top of that organization.....but it sounds like this guy is just trying to make money on the back of having a low level unrelated job there. Here is the gist of a statement from the Alliance:

Mr. Huff is entitled to his own opinions, but not to his own facts. The actual “truth about Wuhan” is:


1) Mr. Huff was employed by the EcoHealth Alliance from 2014 to 2016. However, claims that he worked at or with the Wuhan Institute of Virology during that time are untrue. He was assigned to a completely different project working on computer-based algorithms to assess emerging disease threats.


2) Mr. Huff alleges that EcoHealth Alliance was engaged in gain of function research to create SARS-CoV-2. This is not true.


3) Mr. Huff makes a number of other speculations and allegations about the nature of the collaboration between EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Given that he never worked at or with the Wuhan Institute of Virology, his assertions along these lines cannot be trusted.


4) Mr. Huff claims that SARS-CoV-2 emerged as a lab leak from the Wuhan Institute of Virology based on research conducted there on bat coronaviruses and, further, that this research was related to U.S. intelligence gathering efforts. This is not true.


Dr. Francis Collins, then Director of the U. S. National Institutes of Health issued the following statement on October 20, 2021: “NIH wants to set the record straight on NIH-supported research to understand naturally occurring bat coronaviruses at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, funded through a subaward from NIH grantee EcoHealth Alliance. Analysis of published genomic data and other documents from the grantee demonstrate that the naturally occurring bat coronaviruses studied under the NIH grant are genetically far distant from SARS-CoV-2 and could not possibly have caused the COVID-19 pandemic. Any claims to the contrary are demonstrably false.


Importantly, after an intensive investigation, agencies in the U.S Intelligence Community agreed that the virus was not developed as a biological weapon and most agencies assessed that SARS-CoV-2 most likely was not genetically engineered.”
https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-w...ement-misinformation-about-sars-cov-2-origins


5) Mr. Huff argues that the origin of COVID-19 is definitely due to a lab leak, yet he provides no scientific evidence to support his case.
A recent report by the Independent Task Force on COVID-19 and Other Pandemic Origins, Prevention, and Response, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, reviews the considerable peer-reviewed literature and concludes that the preponderance of the evidence is most consistent with COVID-19’s origin as a zoonotic infection within the wildlife trade. While a lab leak cannot be absolutely ruled out, the Independent Task Force found no verifiable and credible evidence or scientific data to support this interpretation.

 

[EYESAILOR]

I'm not particularly trying to defend Chief, but in this particular statement:

"


He's somewhat right in conclusion, if not in details. I didn't find anything from Oxford that is recent. I linked what I found assessing the situation in late 2022 along with supporting data from seem to be credible sources.

The data does suggest that forcing University Students - at least in the US - whom are presumably 18-29 - to get BOOSTED seems to be counterproductive.

NO ONE is better off UNVACCINATED. There is NO cohort to whom THAT statement applies.

Sensible, objective and balanced comment.

 

[hasher]

This fucking virus has hastened the death of my parents. They were locked in their rooms. Of course at 95 and 93 they have a lot to be thankful for.

The virus sucks. So does much of life. My complaint with Trump's response is that he tried to deny reality.

China will now be the next experiment. Of course most of us would prefer that massive amounts of death of people doesn't have to prove the point.

 

[Tom Dl]

NO ONE is better off UNVACCINATED. There is NO cohort to whom THAT statement applies.

How is that true, there is ample evidence that natural immunity is better, or sufficient. And since Omicron, which even Gates said was "regrettably" a vaccine, the rates of infection are sky high. The booster has no proven effect on Omicron from the bi part that is tailored to it. And whatever one wishes to believe about the original vaccine, it was not specific to Omicron. So not much to see there.

It is stupid to vaccinate children. And the low number of people who have done it so far reflects that. C is less harmful to children than the V, not getting it is a no brainer. It is a bit like abortion, one rarely knows whether it's advocates are "deeply invested", and unlikely to accept any argument. If a solid argument did show up it is hard to say "whoopsy daisy, I guess I shouldn't have killed my kid".

Data on hospitalization and death is largely fictional. One huge confounding factor is natural immunity. With Omicron penetration sky high, we don't really know what is doing what. But there are many confounding effects in the data. Someone mentioned the purity of UK data, which actually does seem generally less corrupted. But even the BBC, very pro shot, found a 500% hole in reported levels of no vax. That is more than enough to switch the narrative on "effective at stopping hospitalization and death". By borrowing representation from the Unvaxed group which at this point has lower levels, it tipped the stats to the vax side .

Also, pro-Vs seem to imagine that there is only one kind of person and lifestyle. Presumably they are the kind of sailors who would have met a transatlantic sailor at the doc, who was at sea when COVID was "discovered", and marched him off to quarantine. I was in a Province during COVID that closed off entry, and COVID was basically zero during the whole high danger phase of the disease. Then they opened up and stabbed everyone, though Omicron spread like wildfire. Many countries have low population centers where if you were scared enough (reasonably) of COVID, you could easily avoid it.

 

[Tom Dl]

NO ONE is better off UNVACCINATED. There is NO cohort to whom THAT statement applies.

Not that this contradicts your assertion, but there is this:

"Over 12 million Americans have experienced major side effects due to the covid vaccinations, and nearly 60% of Americans are concerned about adverse effects reports Mark Mitchell, the head pollster of Rasmussen Reports."

Rasmussen is at least a known name in the field, which even if they had sold out to whatever client, goes to show that it is safe to do that, at this point.

(Funny coincidence, I just tested positive for Covid, tonight. I feel OK for now. This is the victory lap I was looking for. I have a ton of comorbidities, so I hope to slip through. No V, and No Covid, when it counted. I expected to take the V as I do with all the others. But given how late the dilivery was in Canada, I would not have been done until the end of July, so I didn't actually need it, I am at the lake during the summer and fall, so I let others go, and problems showed up right away. Then Omicron. So basically the V only worked for about 4 months till the cavalry arrived. Other people have different situations.)

 

[Tom Dl]

But back on topic.....Im not aware that many US universities are insisting on booster mandates beyond the booster given in late 2021 early 2022.

Lots have mandates, maybe not a high percentage of the total. Those that do include the ivy league ones. In the can with NIH donations, vaccine research, etc... Some of the biggies require their students to get the BV, but not staff or workers. If you don't get the stab, they don't refund tuition.



Last I heard, the soldiers got a reprieve. What is interesting there is that the RINOs caved and pushed the reprieve. So the whatcha gotta do to be electable is changing. The RINOs also mentioned back pay and reinstatement, at least as far as attaching their names to it.

Wolf is a lefty, and was a political adviser to Gore.

Yale University Updated Vaccine Mandate Endangers Student Body, Says Yalie Mother Dr. Naomi Wolf - Children's Health Defense California Chapter

Yale graduate, feminist icon and medical freedom advocate Dr. Naomi Wolf speaks out against Yale's COVID-19 vaccine mandate. Learn why.

ca.childrenshealthdefense.org

Colleges are doubling down now that there is a new booster.

I have no idea who is right, but positions continue to evolve. Not to mention Elon announced his pronouns are Prosecute/Fauci.

 

[BeSafe]

It is stupid to vaccinate children. And the low number of people who have done it so far reflects that. C is less harmful to children than the V, not getting it is a no brainer. It is a bit like abortion, one rarely knows whether it's advocates are "deeply invested", and unlikely to accept any argument.

That's actually a testable hypothesis but one of the core issues is what you mean by 'deeply invested'. For example, is the CDC 'deeply invested' or do you accept their data? They report, as of 12/7/2022, that there have been 1562 deaths in the age group 0-18 attributable to COVID.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths: Focus on Ages 0-18 Years | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

If they aren't to be trusted, then there's really not much left beyond anecdotal. Childhood deaths are fairly rare to begin with so there's no chance that a single practitioner is going to have a statistically relevant data set.

Since you mentioned England, thus far, they've reported one death attributable to an adverse COVID reaction, whereas even the most strict interpretation of "Death from COVID in children under 20 without pre-existing condition ' put the number at 20 children, as opposed to some of the more broad claims like 195 died 'with COVID'. The 20:1 ratio still supports my assertion of "NO ONE is better off UNVACCINATED."

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of vaccinating children. I do believe there are adverse effects. But all the data that I've seen thus far suggests its a net positive. I'm also pretty firmly in the 'don't force parents' camp and generally oppose mandates. And I generically think that public policy around COVID has been bad and have trashed it elsewhere.

All that being said, what data are you considering when you make the bolded claim?

"Natural Immunity" also requires a bit of probing. Do you mean immunity to FUTURE covid exposure after having survived covid already and are you comparing that to immunity to FUTURE covid exposure having gotten vaccinated? That's what that would typically mean, but some people refer to "Natural Immunity" as resistance to Covid without any prior exposure - i.e., your native immune system.

 

[d'ranger]

How many socks from 2011 does this clown have? sheesh,

 

[Raz'r]

How many socks from 2011 does this clown have? sheesh,

Not sure, but he’s definitely an idiot.