the unofficial official 2011 j109 sa thread

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
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Hamble / Paris
Throatwarbler - I'll do so. I have not heard about problems in UK fleet and most of the boats spend most of the time racing with heavily loaded #1's

Re: kites I suspect North has the most data amongst the UK fleet. I've only had one chance to line up downwind on the 15 mile start of Cervantes Trophy and speed between the boats seemed pretty even, we have Elvstrom (new Ultimate AP coming), JIBE and Jagerbomb are North, not sure about Yoeman. Photos look similar, for us it was race 1 and we were conservative with tack down and probably a bit oversheeted. This isn't as true a test of ultimate downwind performance differences as an OD race.

All photos credit Hamo Thornycroft

JIBE

Jaegerbomb (not such a good photo angle)

Jambalaya

Yoeman

 
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Blur

Super Anarchist
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Sweden
Sweet... Lastet episode of "Pimp My Ride" :lol:

5799512055_385f317e45_b.jpg


This is the Carbonautica wheel that's an option on the US J/111 (not in Europe yet). Sligthly modified to fit the Lewmar hub.

Next I'll probably get rid of the compass and mount a plotter there (Garmin GPSmap 720?). We tend to do a lot of tight archipelago racing, but i don't want a huge pod. We'll see...

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,551
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Hamble / Paris
Like on the 105 you need to think of a way to protect any plotter mounted there from the mainsheet which has a habbit of looping over binacle on gybes esp when short handed and not being "handed" across

 

JL92S

Super Anarchist
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426
UK
Next I'll probably get rid of the compass and mount a plotter there (Garmin GPSmap 720?). We tend to do a lot of tight archipelago racing, but i don't want a huge pod. We'll see...
have a look at the garmin 555 plotter, he had one mounted on the back of the coachroof about where your polars are.

 

Wam

New member
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0
Throatwarbler - I'll do so. I have not heard about problems in UK fleet and most of the boats spend most of the time racing with heavily loaded #1's

Re: kites I suspect North has the most data amongst the UK fleet. I've only had one chance to line up downwind on the 15 mile start of Cervantes Trophy and speed between the boats seemed pretty even, we have Elvstrom (new Ultimate AP coming), JIBE and Jagerbomb are North, not sure about Yoeman. Photos look similar, for us it was race 1 and we were conservative with tack down and probably a bit oversheeted. This isn't as true a test of ultimate downwind performance differences as an OD race.

All photos credit Hamo Thornycroft

JIBE

Jaegerbomb (not such a good photo angle)

Jambalaya

Yoeman
Are you sure thats Yeoman, seems to have a French sail number?

Kite wise im still not sure which are better but the fleet consensus does seem to be north!, but J109 when i said that the Elvstrom A4 was cut deeper than the A2 i meant the Elvstrom A2, which is definatly cut higher than the north A2 but i feel the angles achievable are pretty similar between the Elvstrom A4 and the north A2. With the Elvstrom A4 being used from 14 knots (at least according to the sail selection chart iv seen).

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
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Hamble / Paris
wam - sorry yes, that's a French 109. Yoeman with Jagerbomb behind here

North do now have a dominant position in the Solent keel boat market, I don't have the view that that's particularly due to any performance advantage of their products. It's rather more of a designer label thing in my view.

 
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bowboy

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Chicago, IL
As far as I knew, the North A4 is just a heavier version of the A2, same size, same cut but heavier cloth and more reinforcement.
that is mostly correct, at least here in the usa. we have both the A2 and the A4, they are both 108 sq m, the A4 is just heavier material and cut slightly differently for better heavy air stability and sail handling. according to their site:

2A Class Spinnaker 108m2

SPL = 5.72

ISP = 14.84

This sail loves to sail deep angles and rotate to weather downwind. It has a bigger more powerful head section and more elliptical shaping on the edges. So it will be more stable than the previous design with the tack raised and the sheet eased. But it still works well at tighter angles if it gets lighter. We really like this design and it has proven versatile and fast, in all conditions. » AirX 650

4A Class Spinnaker 108m2

SPL = 13.33

ISP = 49.00

This sail isn't just a heavier version of the 2A, it's shape and geometry are optimized for sailing in breeze over 18 knots TWS. The 4A spinnaker is more stable and easier to trim and gybe in heavier breeze. This sail is designed to keep the tack down, but still project out to windward, which makes it easier to keep the sail under the chute and more stable in lumpy conditions. This will be a great addition to any J/109 inventory. » AirX 700

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,551
74
Hamble / Paris
Re: A4 very interesting, it was a North A4 which we couldn't control. It seemed smaller than the Elvstrom kite. When its back from being repaired I'll check the measurement data. BTW I am a big fan of Airx.

 

Flaming

Anarchist
544
92
UK
You can hardly call Dartweek a serious regatta, definately not worth blowing a kite for. And for your information, J-Dream would never go to white sail in anything less than 35 kts. They have the crew to handle it and the best helm. I can remember having the A2 up having gusts of over 40 kts and a steady 30 + kts when the boat planed for the whole run at 19 kts going from 6th to 1st...
So this isn't J Dream (with somewhat iffy crew position...) DDW in 25ish at Dartmouth 2009?

The previous downwind they (you...?) did fly the kite, whilst Shiva (or was it VE...?) did the goosewing thing. Despite the exceptional boat handling that J-Dream is rightly known for they lost 10 boatlengths to the 109 that didn't hoist.

/monthly_06_2011/post-2703-081722400%201307465721_thumb.jpg

 

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JL92S

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You can hardly call Dartweek a serious regatta, definately not worth blowing a kite for. And for your information, J-Dream would never go to white sail in anything less than 35 kts. They have the crew to handle it and the best helm. I can remember having the A2 up having gusts of over 40 kts and a steady 30 + kts when the boat planed for the whole run at 19 kts going from 6th to 1st...
So this isn't J Dream (with somewhat iffy crew position...) DDW in 25ish at Dartmouth 2009?

The previous downwind they (you...?) did fly the kite, whilst Shiva (or was it VE...?) did the goosewing thing. Despite the exceptional boat handling that J-Dream is rightly known for they lost 10 boatlengths to the 109 that didn't hoist.
we didn't have a brilliant day that day, it had previously gusted around 35kts but mostly we weren't the regular crew and we had one lying down below seasick.

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,551
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Hamble / Paris
Flaming I recall it was JD and Jamahli at the front of that IRC class. I remember the regatta pretty well, sold breeze and one day blown off. We (on the 105) sailed pretty well and flew the kite every leg of every race with no issues. I remember calculating that we'd not have beaten JD on a single race (bit of a ballpark as we were on same circle but the class behind), I think that settled the fact that I needed to switch boats to a 109

 

Flaming

Anarchist
544
92
UK
Yeah, that regatta also fixed us on ditching the overlappers.

As you can see we sailed around the course with JD in pretty much every race but never flew the overlappers and with JD rated for a 3 we were never in contention as we owed them 15 points for a sail we couldn't use.

 
You can hardly call Dartweek a serious regatta, definately not worth blowing a kite for. And for your information, J-Dream would never go to white sail in anything less than 35 kts. They have the crew to handle it and the best helm. I can remember having the A2 up having gusts of over 40 kts and a steady 30 + kts when the boat planed for the whole run at 19 kts going from 6th to 1st...
So this isn't J Dream (with somewhat iffy crew position...) DDW in 25ish at Dartmouth 2009?

The previous downwind they (you...?) did fly the kite, whilst Shiva (or was it VE...?) did the goosewing thing. Despite the exceptional boat handling that J-Dream is rightly known for they lost 10 boatlengths to the 109 that didn't hoist.
2009, ah, yes straight after the Nationals. Can't remember what crew they had on board but it wasn't the regular crew. I wasn't there for one...

 

j109

New member
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UK
You can hardly call Dartweek a serious regatta, definately not worth blowing a kite for. And for your information, J-Dream would never go to white sail in anything less than 35 kts. They have the crew to handle it and the best helm. I can remember having the A2 up having gusts of over 40 kts and a steady 30 + kts when the boat planed for the whole run at 19 kts going from 6th to 1st...
So this isn't J Dream (with somewhat iffy crew position...) DDW in 25ish at Dartmouth 2009?

The previous downwind they (you...?) did fly the kite, whilst Shiva (or was it VE...?) did the goosewing thing. Despite the exceptional boat handling that J-Dream is rightly known for they lost 10 boatlengths to the 109 that didn't hoist.
we didn't have a brilliant day that day, it had previously gusted around 35kts but mostly we weren't the regular crew and we had one lying down below seasick.
Not normal mastman and they took a penalty. Suspect he got shouted at by Kirsty!

 

Flaming

Anarchist
544
92
UK
You can hardly call Dartweek a serious regatta, definately not worth blowing a kite for. And for your information, J-Dream would never go to white sail in anything less than 35 kts. They have the crew to handle it and the best helm. I can remember having the A2 up having gusts of over 40 kts and a steady 30 + kts when the boat planed for the whole run at 19 kts going from 6th to 1st...
So this isn't J Dream (with somewhat iffy crew position...) DDW in 25ish at Dartmouth 2009?

The previous downwind they (you...?) did fly the kite, whilst Shiva (or was it VE...?) did the goosewing thing. Despite the exceptional boat handling that J-Dream is rightly known for they lost 10 boatlengths to the 109 that didn't hoist.
we didn't have a brilliant day that day, it had previously gusted around 35kts but mostly we weren't the regular crew and we had one lying down below seasick.
Not normal mastman and they took a penalty. Suspect he got shouted at by Kirsty!
They did not take a penalty. We didn't file in the end because we couldn't be bothered on the last day of the regatta with a protest that would change nothing. I did send that pic to J-Dream afterwards, and they did agree it was illegal and "we won't do it again". Which is fair enough really.

 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
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Hamble / Paris
We had another 60 odd miles of heavy air sailing at the weekend. On Saturday we'd observe that into 20-25 knots we were higher and even speed with 3 crew (ie only 1 or 2 on rail) with a #3 and reefed main than a 109 with 6 crew with a #3 and full main. It is hard to know whether part of that was "skill" as we were not up against a top boat. On Sunday into 25-35 with #4 and single reefed main was OK at bottom of that range but by 35 we needed definitely 2 reefs.

FWIW it cannot have been to windy when the JD photo was taken as the sea looks quite flat (often does in photos perhaps) and they have no reef in the main. In 30 knots I don't think you could hold a J109 #3 withot it tearing your arm off. Photo below was in solid 30-35, we have reeefed main, small frac chute (not masthead), note sea state and this is also in a reasonably protected bay with wind blowing off the land. My only point is I think you go no kite on a 109 much earlier than I have been used to on 105 and 92.

/monthly_06_2011/post-3223-080313700%201307969080_thumb.jpg

 

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Blur

Super Anarchist
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Sweden
Regarding the discussion we had about the downwind whomper... here's a short clip from Faerder Race in Norway that started friday. 850+ boats and downwind start inside Oslo city = pretty shifty.

That chute sure keeps the crew busy - and smiling :D


 

Jambalaya

Super Anarchist
6,551
74
Hamble / Paris
Blur - how did you do that ? I've watched the video three times and I cannot work it out. I've been sailing asyms for 12 years and I've never managed that, a sort of asymetric chinese gybe after a big puff knocks the boat down without rounding up and then shift forces a gybe ? In fact you need to name it, "A blur", "A Blurch", "A Bloach". Also your crew need a special good humour award as I have to believe the water temperature in Oslo isn't so warm in June, the crew were busy holding on and trying not to freeze to death !

 

JL92S

Super Anarchist
1,779
426
UK
it's surprisingly easy to do, i've done it in a 6.4m sportsboat and very nearly done in a 92 and a 105, symmetric spinnaker trim knowledge applies then winching the tack down to keep the sail in front of the boat.

 
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