The Voice. An Australian referendum

[Alhadder]

And just where did any of those propositions come from? Not from me, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Actually, I don't even understand the second proposition - surely you aren't referring to the indigenous people as "native fauna"?? WTF?

Up until the 1967 referendum I think the indigenous people were indeed classed as native fauna. I'd have to search for that info though.

Edit - Doh...should've done the Google search before posting. I apparently fell for the myth

Flora and Fauna Act myth - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Recidivist]

Up until the 1967 referendum I think the indigenous people were indeed classed as native fauna. I'd have to search for that info though.

Edit - Doh...should've done the Google search before posting. I apparently fell for the myth

Flora and Fauna Act myth - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Phew! I'm relieved by that, thanks for making the effort to chase that down - I was searching at the same time, but didn't find your info. I would have been amazed (and disturbed) had it turned out to be true - I had never heard the myth.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

Up until the 1967 referendum I think the indigenous people were indeed classed as native fauna. I'd have to search for that info though.

Edit - Doh...should've done the Google search before posting. I apparently fell for the myth

Flora and Fauna Act myth - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Robinson Crusoe. You are not.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

And just where did any of those propositions come from? Not from me, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

Actually, I don't even understand the second proposition - surely you aren't referring to the indigenous people as "native fauna"?? WTF?

My point, with one correct fact and one incorrect supporting myth (thanks alhadder!), is that the constitution was written, and included ideas from, another era.


It needs to be updated. The voice is part of that updating.

Its not perfect, just like the original constitution, but it's a start.

 

[Mid]

It needs to be updated.

maybe so BUT giving the pollies cart blanch to do so ain't happening .

again on tonight news Albo stated that the pollies will work out the details later ... fok that .

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

And just where did any of those propositions come from? Not from me, so please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

As per usual with ETS, he has no hesitation in assigning you an opinion you've never expressed, just so he can attack you for holding it.

It's deeply dishonest and futile because it demonstrates that he doesn't actually have an argument he can put forward and defend.

FKT

 

[Ease the sheet.]

maybe so BUT giving the pollies cart blanch to do so ain't happening .

again on tonight news Albo stated that the pollies will work out the details later ... fok that .

So what do you elect them for?

 

[ShortForBob]

I don't need to see, I can guess pretty much.
Let's make one thing perfectly clear and it isn't that hard.
Amending the constitution

"a three-sentence addition to the constitution as follows:

1.There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.
2.The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to Parliament and the Executive Government on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples.
3.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to the composition, functions, powers and procedures of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice."


FFS.
That's a draft of the proposed amendments.


Run away screaming...

1.There shall be a body, to be called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.

This is to prevent representative bodies such as

• National Aboriginal Consultative Committee (NACC), 1972-1977. Structure. Autonomy, Resilience and Vulnerability.
• National Aboriginal Conference (NAC), 1977-1985. Structure. ...
• The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission (ATSIC) 1990-2005

Being created and disbanded at the whim of any government.

2.The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice may make representations to Parliament and the Executive Government on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples.

Note the word "MAY" not "Shall"

3.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to the composition, functions, powers and procedures of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice."

Note the word "shall" not "may"

This is the bit that seems to be "confusing" people.
(Or giving some the material to sow confusion)

The
"composition, functions, powers and procedures of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice."
will be legislated for after the change to the constitution. It can be changed again and again
by any government if and as the government of the day sees fit.

BUT, there will always be a voice, weak or strong, there WILL BE a Voice.

There has been no aboriginal consultative voice since 2005 when ATSIC was abolished

Why is this principle so hard for some to swallow?

 

[Mid]

So what do you elect them for?

to leglislate on issues that affect me with my full knowledge of the outcome .

never signed a fokin blank cheque and never will .

 

[ShortForBob]

to leglislate on issues that affect me with my full knowledge of the outcome .

never signed a fokin blank cheque and never will .

You're not signing a blank cheque any more than you do when and every time you vote Mid.
Can you please try to explain what you mean and why you think you'd be signing a blank cheque by voting YES?
Then maybe we can address your concern .

 

[ShortForBob]

maybe so BUT giving the pollies cart blanch to do so ain't happening .

again on tonight news Albo stated that the pollies will work out the details later ... fok that .

But Mid, pollies "work out the detail" later, every time they have a policy put before the electorate.
Do you think "Medicare" sprang fully formed into the world on 5th Dec 1972?

This is no different, and the constitutional change ensures that any legislation can be changed.

 

[Goodvibes]

Well, bogans vote, don't read and hate 'black cunts',

I'm still pessimistic about this, and the term 'Voice' is just too abstract for the average Australian.

I hope they patch it up, but right now it's fucked.

 

[00seven]

So what do you elect them for?

They're not elected to change the constitution. You already know that change can only come by way of referendum.

 

[Se7en]

Why is this principle so hard for some to swallow?

Because it's completely pointless?
If the proposed change had been made 10 years ago, there would have been nothing to stop Scomo deciding that the body of the Voice was to be represented by Cardinal Pell. Nothing to stop Pell from doing absolutely nothing with the role, and nothing to stop Scomo from ignoring anything Pell had to say in the event he did say something.

So what does it actually achieve, other than to make Albo and supporters feel good about having done something?

 

[Ease the sheet.]

to leglislate on issues that affect me with my full knowledge of the outcome .

never signed a fokin blank cheque and never will .

Your full knowledge?

How's that working out for you?



Ps, the voice doesn't affect you.

 

[Mid]

Ps, the voice doesn't affect you.

interesting , wonder why I'm being canvassed then ?

 

[Ease the sheet.]

Because it's completely pointless?
If the proposed change had been made 10 years ago, there would have been nothing to stop Scomo deciding that the body of the Voice was to be represented by Cardinal Pell. Nothing to stop Pell from doing absolutely nothing with the role, and nothing to stop Scomo from ignoring anything Pell had to say in the event he did say something.

So what does it actually achieve, other than to make Albo and supporters feel good about having done something?

So your going to offer up a hypothetical and only explore the worst case scenario?

 

[Ease the sheet.]

interesting , wonder why I'm being canvassed then ?

Process.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

Indigenous Constitutional Recognition and Representation

Sally McNicol and James Haughton, Social Policy Key issue The issues of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people’s inclusion in law, policy-making and the Australian Constitution have a long history. Where do matters currently stand and what are the current issues t

www.aph.gov.au

 

[Se7en]

So your going to offer up a hypothetical and only explore the worst case scenario?

It was a hypothetical to illistrate the question I am asking. It serves the purpose.
I could have equally used a hypothetical where Albo puts all his mates up as the body, and pays them a few $100k a year each. And they still do nothing.

Do you have an answer, or just a criticism?