The Voice. An Australian referendum

[ShortForBob]

Because it's completely pointless?
If the proposed change had been made 10 years ago, there would have been nothing to stop Scomo deciding that the body of the Voice was to be represented by Cardinal Pell. Nothing to stop Pell from doing absolutely nothing with the role, and nothing to stop Scomo from ignoring anything Pell had to say in the event he did say something.

So what does it actually achieve, other than to make Albo and supporters feel good about having done something?

Rubbish, he'd have had to first get the changes to appointment details made by the previous governments through both houses.
3.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to the composition, functions, powers and procedures of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice."

There has been NO aboriginal representative body since ATSIC was disbanded almost 20 years ago. Is that acceptable to you?

 

[Se7en]

Rubbish, he'd have had to first get the changes to appointment details made by the previous governments through both houses.
3.The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws with respect to the composition, functions, powers and procedures of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice."

There has been NO aboriginal representative body since ATSIC was disbanded almost 20 years ago. Is that acceptable to you?

Because no government ever has control of both houses?

There seem to be a number of aborigional people in government. I also expect politicians to represent all their constituents, including aborigional people. So yes, it's quite acceptable to me that there is no seperate representational body, if they are being represented through the normal mechanism. Hey, Albo did a quick visit to the Alice on his way to the tennis, what more do you want?

 

[ShortForBob]

Because no government ever has control of both houses?

There seem to be a number of aborigional people in government. I also expect politicians to represent all their constituents, including aborigional people. So yes, it's quite acceptable to me that there is no seperate representational body, if they are being represented through the normal mechanism. Hey, Albo did a quick visit to the Alice on his way to the tennis, what more do you want?

Control of both houses is not relevant, people do cross the floor.

Then we have nothing to discuss.
Assimilation has never been acceptable to me.

I'll ask though.
Do you think that your local MP has the networks, time and resources, or even the will, to address the issues his local indigenous constituents may have? Or do you perhaps think that no small group in any constituency should have special attention paid to their particular problems?

 

[Se7en]

Control of both houses is not relevant, people do cross the floor.

Then we have nothing to discuss.
Assimilation has never been acceptable to me.

I'll ask though.
Do you think that your local MP has the networks, time and resources, or even the will, to address the issues his local indigenous constituents may have? Or do you perhaps think that no small group in any constituency should have special attention paid to their particular problems?

Current MP? No, she is uselessly teal and does not intend on doing anything. I voted Labour.
Tim Wilson (previous MP) had an interest in trying to get representation for minority groups, mabe due to being gay. He spoke at my kids school about representing the aborigional heritage of this area, no idea if he achieved anything, but he was expressing an opinion.

If you don't want to assimilate, kindly fuck off back where you came from. And give the Irish and the Scots their independance while you are at it.

 

[ShortForBob]

Current MP? No, she is uselessly teal and does not intend on doing anything. I voted Labour.
Tim Wilson (previous MP) had an interest in trying to get representation for minority groups, mabe due to being gay. He spoke at my kids school about representing the aborigional heritage of this area, no idea if he achieved anything, but he was expressing an opinion.

If you don't want to assimilate, kindly fuck off back where you came from. And give the Irish and the Scots their independance while you are at it.

You surprise me.
You do know what assimilation means dont you?

Ask the Irish, the Welsh.
ask any cultural group who's customs and cultures have been often violently suppressed by invaders.
Fucking assimilation gave us the stolen generations.

Why isn't it us that should have assimilated with the numerically dominant cultures 200 years ago?

Cultural assimilation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Se7en]

You surprise me.
You do know what assimilation means dont you?

Why isn't it us that should have assimilated with the numerically dominant cultures 200 years ago.

We didn't. And it's too late for me to castigate my great x6 grandparents.

I'm not going to assimilate with the first nation culture because I'm already over 50. If I tried to live their life at the time of settlement I'd be dead. There are a bunch of other aspects of their tribal life I don't find acceptable.

The question I asked was "what is the point of the consitutional change?" Care to address that rather than waffle over how badly onne group of long dead people treated another group?

 

[Mid]

Why isn't it us that should have assimilated with the numerically dominant cultures 200 years ago?

same reason insects don't rule the world .

 

[ShortForBob]

We didn't. And it's too late for me to castigate my great x6 grandparents.

I'm not going to assimilate with the first nation culture because I'm already over 50. If I tried to live their life at the time of settlement I'd be dead. There are a bunch of other aspects of their tribal life I don't find acceptable.

The question I asked was "what is the point of the consitutional change?" Care to address that rather than waffle over how badly onne group of long dead people treated another group?

The point has been explained over and over by many posts and many articles posted , If you don't care to accept the rationale, that is not our problem, don't expect me or anyone else to continue your silly game.

At least you accept that they are first nation.

 

[ShortForBob]

same reason insects don't rule the world .

Well they kinda do actually. They just rule subtly most of the time.

 

[LB 15]

Fun to watch Meli losing her shit over something as pointless as this. The lies she tells to try and justify her position is wearing thin even with her fellow leftists who see the stupidity in this nonsense.
She states that their has been no Indigenous representation for years despite there being more indigenous Members of parliament than ever in history. The only one cheering for her side are Eased and Randumb. Can one of you guys take one for the team and service her? Maybe you can fuck some sense into her. Take a paper bag with you. If she won’t wear it you can.

Bottom line is that the Australian Aboriginal is a Stone Age man. You cannot drag them from their caves and expect them to assimilate in 200 years. Sure the ones with plenty of Whitey in them can, but they are not Abos, they are whitey. Only full bloods should be allowed a voice. They can sing it to us in their inane chanting and humming through their hollow logs. Indigenous culture is an oxymoron.

 

[The Dark Knight]

We didn't. And it's too late for me to castigate my great x6 grandparents.

I'm not going to assimilate with the first nation culture because I'm already over 50. If I tried to live their life at the time of settlement I'd be dead. There are a bunch of other aspects of their tribal life I don't find acceptable.

The question I asked was "what is the point of the consitutional change?" Care to address that rather than waffle over how badly onne group of long dead people treated another group?

If we all assimilated with First Nations culture we’d be sitting around waiting for the bottle shop to open after trashing what’s left of our house and after having sex with our own children.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

Here's an article ETS & Meli should read.

Yes, much of the nastiness in the Voice debate has come from those with most to lose

That became apparent when Opposition Leader Peter Dutton asked Prime Minister Anthony Albanese for particulars of how the Voice would operate. The response to his letter was revealing.

www.smh.com.au

But of course, they'll look at who the author is and immediately reject it. They'd rather wrap themselves in their lefty warrior inanity than actually do some hard work and attempt to convince people. Threatening, belittling and insults are their instinctive responses to anyone who isn't with them. Good old lefties there, anyone not with them is against them, no nuance possible. And fuck explanations, the feel of the thing and the vibe is what's important.

Kind of like the republic referendum and we know how that one played out.

Good clear answers to Dutton's perfectly reasonable questions or fuck off until you've thought it through and can actually GIVE answers. Otherwise I'm voting no and I'm telling everyone I know how I'm voting & why.

FKT

 

[The Dark Knight]

Fun to watch Meli losing her shit over something as pointless as this. The lies she tells to try and justify her position is wearing thin even with her fellow leftists who see the stupidity in this nonsense.

So you peeked…

I can’t be bothered reading her drivel.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Here's an article ETS & Meli should read.

Yes, much of the nastiness in the Voice debate has come from those with most to lose

That became apparent when Opposition Leader Peter Dutton asked Prime Minister Anthony Albanese for particulars of how the Voice would operate. The response to his letter was revealing.

www.smh.com.au

But of course, they'll look at who the author is and immediately reject it. They'd rather wrap themselves in their lefty warrior inanity than actually do some hard work and attempt to convince people. Threatening, belittling and insults are their instinctive responses to anyone who isn't with them. Good old lefties there, anyone not with them is against them, no nuance possible. And fuck explanations, the feel of the thing and the vibe is what's important.

Kind of like the republic referendum and we know how that one played out.

Good clear answers to Dutton's perfectly reasonable questions or fuck off until you've thought it through and can actually GIVE answers. Otherwise I'm voting no and I'm telling everyone I know how I'm voting & why.

FKT

That article is way beyond their ability to comprehend. By reading it and accepting the point of it, it would call into question their beliefs in Albos handling of the voice debate and thus his leadership credentials.

This is never going to happen because unlike the rest of us on this thread, they have no ability or question or criticise their side of politics because they are just blind LWNJs

 

[Recidivist]

My point, with one correct fact and one incorrect supporting myth (thanks alhadder!), is that the constitution was written, and included ideas from, another era.


It needs to be updated. The voice is part of that updating.

Its not perfect, just like the original constitution, but it's a start.

Maybe I'm just thick, but you will have to point out to me what it is that you consider to be the "correct fact", because I can't identify it.

Of course the Constitution was written in another era, but it does not follow that it "needs to be updated". If that were indisputably the case, there would be universal support for amendment - but there is not, so your argument has fallen at the first post.

And, even though Alhadder has shown the falseness of the "native fauna" myth, you were prepared to rely on it before the falseness was pointed out, apparently in order to score cheap points. In my opinion, that was reprehensible.

 

[Se7en]

The point has been explained over and over by many posts and many articles posted , If you don't care to accept the rationale, that is not our problem, don't expect me or anyone else to continue your silly game.

At least you accept that they are first nation.

Really?
Someone has explained how the constitutional change being proposed will actually make a meaningful difference? I must have missed that post, perhaps someone has me on ignore. You certainly have not explained that coherantly.

If the answer is so obvious and succinct, surely you could do a quick cut and paste and be done.

Apologies for not pluralising nation. I meant to say first nations, meaning anyone here before 1788. I certainly do not think that there was one nation occupying Australia for 65000 years. But I believe you have disparaged Manning Clark previously, so I won't continue down that rabbit hole now. Or should I say dingo hole, as rabbits have only been here 150 years. Actually, thylacine hole would be better still, except that the dingos didn't assimilate nicely.

 

[Se7en]

And, even though Alhadder has shown the falseness of the "native fauna" myth, you were prepared to rely on it before the falseness was pointed out, apparently in order to score cheap points. In my opinion, that was reprehensible.

That's a bit harsh.
The 'Fauna act' nattative may have been false, but it was a reality that they were not counted as people, and that 150 years ago there was no penalty for killing them off.
Just like invaders have treated the invaded forever.
I wouldn't be here in Australia if those dammed Angles, Saxons and Jutes hadn't driven my ancestral celts up into Scotland. Not to mention those bastard Vikings who clearly raped great great grandma a few times.

 

[Recidivist]

There has been NO aboriginal representative body since ATSIC was disbanded almost 20 years ago. Is that acceptable to you?

Yes. Unlike you, I have read every word uttered by politicians on both sides in parliamentary debates for the contentious passage of `what ultimately became the Aboriginal Land Rights (Northern Territory) Act of the Commonwealth, and supporting legislation. I found the politicians on both sides of the House and the Senate to be very well informed, and they were competing with each other to show their depth of knowledge, personal experience with and connection to traditional aboriginal people. I have no reason to think that today's politicians are less informed about indigenous matters, or that there has been a decrease in "lobbying" by indigenous interests to ensure that their concerns are addressed.

In short, I do not believe there is a need for a separate aboriginal representative body, and I do believe that if such a body were to be created, it would not speak with one voice for all indigenous people (this was one of the reasons for the abolition of ATSIC - it had become a self-serving bureaucracy that absorbed money and achieved nothing).

 

[The Dark Knight]

I wouldn't be here in Australia if those dammed Angles, Saxons and Jutes hadn't driven my ancestral celts up into Scotland. Not to mention those bastard Vikings who clearly raped great great grandma a few times.

Having lived in Scandi land and having spent plenty of time in the UK, I'd say tjat ion terms of looks, the lucky Brits are the ones are those who had their gene pool updated with some Vikinng DNA

Having seen photos of Meli which I can not burn from my memory, her ancestors probably missed out on som Viking improvements.

 

[ShortForBob]

Yes. Unlike you, I have read every word uttered by politicians on both sides in parliamentary debates for the contentious passage of `what ultimately became the Aboriginal Land Rights (Northern Territory) Act of the Commonwealth, and supporting legislation. I found the politicians on both sides of the House and the Senate to be very well informed, and they were competing with each other to show their depth of knowledge, personal experience with and connection to traditional aboriginal people. I have no reason to think that today's politicians are less informed about indigenous matters, or that there has been a decrease in "lobbying" by indigenous interests to ensure that their concerns are addressed.

In short, I do not believe there is a need for a separate aboriginal representative body, and I do believe that if such a body were to be created, it would not speak with one voice for all indigenous people (this was one of the reasons for the abolition of ATSIC - it had become a self-serving bureaucracy that absorbed money and achieved nothing).

Seriously.
So you think that the statements politicians make under parliamentary privilege are well informed and researched fact? So much so, that they can be relied upon to make policy etc on a whole group of people comprising hundreds of different cultural mobs spread over eight thousand million square kilometres?

That's what we've been doing for 120 years . Look how well that's worked.
It's inefficient, paternalistic and tainted with white political motives.
It changes with change of government for white political ideology wasting funds spent by previous governments. It's inconsistent.
Still, if that's your serious belief, there's no point arguing.