This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
random said:
R Booze said:
random said:
The percentage of households with guns remained the same ... biatch.
Would love to know how they can even tell how many households have guns or not.
Notice he said 'the percentage'. So if I'm following his thought process correctly, if the number of guns in Americans hands went up 24% in twelve years, that means 24% more households own them. Which is a great thing....but seems a bit low to me.....so we need to work on that and get more people into the shooting sports....
In the United States, the percentage of households with one or more guns is reported to be

2012: 34.4

2010: 32.3

2008: 36.0

2006: 34.5

2004: 37.3

2002: 36.4

2000: 34.3

1998: 36.7

1996: 43.4

1994: 44.0

1993: 45.5

1991: 43.7

1990: 45.8

1989: 48.9

1988: 43.4

1987: 48.6

1985: 48.0

1984: 48.5

1982: 48.9

1980: 50.8

1977: 54.0

1976: 49.7

1974: 47.9

1973: 49.1

Cite
So the percentage of households with guns has gone down considerably since 1973- 27.6%...assuming the above is true.
Collectors own many many guns. But they aren't criminals.

 
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jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,263
298
near Seattle, Wa
R Booze, on 01 May 2015 - 5:52 PM, said:

So you gots anything verifiable? .....
That's now how we play here. It's on you to support your claim now.

Look at the damn bibliography in Random's source. It's a who's who of gun study content. Gun Policy.Org is awesome---on an international level.

You need sources to back up your bluster, buster. Here are some of mine.

Bernie Halpin put numbers to the actual breakdown of gun ownership ... and credits one particular survey:

Gun Ownership Is Declining, So Why Is the Gun Lobby So Powerful?We can get an idea of the number of households that own substantial arsenals of guns by examining data from a poll of gun owners conducted by Republican pollster Frank Luntz for Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
Question: "How many guns do you or does a member of your family own?"

Number NRA Member Non-NRA

1gun 18% 25%

2 guns 16% 20%

3-5 guns 26% 39%

6-9 guns 17% 15%

10 or more 24% 11%

About 10 percent of gun owners belong to the NRA. You can do the math yourself. The numbers compute to this rough estimate: The owners of one-to-nine guns possess a total of about 110 million firearms. That means the “10 or more” respondents represent about 4.5 million households that own 230 million firearms — an average of more than 50 guns per household. And that’s just an average, which means some very large number (a million?) own more than 100 guns...The General Social Survey is considered the gold standard for polls. It’s based on face-to-face interviews going back four decades, conducted by the independent National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago and funded by the National Science Foundation.The numbers reflect a long-term trend. During the same period, the percentage of households with a hunter plummeted from 32 to 15 percent. Other important factors during these decades: the percentage of the population living in urban areas increased from 73 to 81 percent while the percentage of the US that is non-Hispanic White declined from 83 to 63 percent. The last demographic is important because, while 39 percent of White households possess firearms, only 18 percent of Black and 15 percent of Hispanic households have them.

.
aa%20guns-in%20decline_zpsbq122thd.gif


So the GSS is a survey, yes, but the one that has asked identical questions for forty years straight. The conclusion is consistent with the body of knowledge on the subject of gun presence in U.S. homes.

Survey Shows U.S. Guns in Homes Have Declined

The number of Americans who live in a household with at least one gun is lower than it's ever been, according to a major American trend survey that finds the decline in gun ownership is paralleled by a reduction in the number of Americans who hunt.

According to the latest General Social Survey, 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does, which ties a record low set in 2010. That's a significant decline since the late 1970s and early 1980s, when about half of Americans told researchers there was a gun in their household.

The General Social Survey is conducted by NORC, an independent research organization based at the University of Chicago, with money from the National Science Foundation. Because of its long-running and comprehensive set of questions about the demographics, behaviors and attitudes of the American public, it is a highly regarded source of data about social trends.(...)

The drop in the number of Americans who own a gun or live in a household with one is probably linked to a decline in the popularity of hunting, from 32 percent who said they lived in a household with at least one hunter in 1977 to less than half that number saying so now. (...)
Your turn now, Boothy. Back up your huffing and puffing with some credible information.

LenP's best response was that gun owners are lying in unison, thus distorting all survey conclusions. Which sounds quite unscientific to me...and a lot like imagining.

 
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Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
Yep. What's not to like about them? Jocal even likes 'em. Most efficient way to remove pesky varmints.

 
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G

Guest

Guest
I see joe completely ignored my direct response to him about whether people in the U.S. Have a groundswell of opinion against guns. Not only is there no groundswell but it's just the opposite.

Jocal = lying cunt.

 
G

Guest

Guest
random said:
I see joe completely ignored my direct response to him about whether people in the U.S. Have a groundswell of opinion against guns. Not only is there no groundswell but it's just the opposite.

Jocal = lying cunt.
Ooops, there it is! The JB key indicator of frustration, the C word!

Maybe I'll stay in and ...

scarjo_popcorn.gif


NUH, I'm outta here.

(and I like the way her arm bumps her, ah, chest)
I fully admit I am frustrated by the willful ignorance and the deliberate stupid so on display here.
and yes, the chest squeeze is quite mezmerizing.

 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,023
1,875
Punta Gorda FL
Black Panthers Encourage Firearms Proliferation

...Now Darren X says he wants black people to start feeling safe again when they walk along America’s streets.

“Our initiative is for black men and women to start arming themselves and for us to start patrolling our own communities. That way we have a visual, we have an eye on what is going on in our neighborhoods. So our mission is to arm every black man that can legally be armed throughout the Unites States of America,” he said....
It's Chief Justice Taney's nightmare come to life! The horror.
More proliferation.

SCLC Director urges blacks to arm themselves

The head of the Georgia chapter of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, founded by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to promote nonviolent social change, on Tuesday advocated African-American families “exercise their Second Amendment rights” in response to recent police shootings of unarmed black men.
These people don't know what's good for blacks. Bloomberg does: throw 'em up against the wall and frisk 'em!
Uh oh.

Second amendment solutions.

This Week on the New Black Panther Party’s “Black Power Radio,” national chairman Hashim Nzinga said since America has “declared war on us,” evidenced by “military police in the black neighborhood” protecting the rich, the New Black Panthers should be looked upon as Founding Fathers who declare war and are “willing to die or kill to save our babies and to save a black nation that is dying before our eyes.”

Nzinga said, “America is about protecting the rich and the powerful.”

He added, “We pay taxes. They have declared war on us and it’s nothing but state racism.”

“So if we say we are at war, we should be applauded like George Washington,” Nzinga continued. “We should be applauded like Thomas Jefferson. We should be applauded like the Founding Fathers of the country.”

“This is not the hate hour, this is the love hour,”he added....
 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,263
298
near Seattle, Wa
VIle. Absolutely disgusting. You have been promoting racial misunderstanding for thirty days.

The gas from your swamp is affecting your better judgement. You are becoming intellectual pond scum.

I don't know the answer to this complex racial dynamic... but I'm certain it isn't more white or black gun culture.

You want to increase gun chaos among blacks? The brothers haven't been torn up enough by gun violence?

You are proposing vigilante values to solve create problems among blacks?

I can't explain why, but you sport a pattern of race-baiting. You point a lot of fingers WRT race.

I'm not sure what you have to offer in a conversation about racial diversity.

You use the blacks' gun violence numbers to promote your pro-gun idiocy? Then you lack social conscience, and are pretty much a loser, IMO.

Tom Ray, on 08 June 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

Does anyone want to guess at the reason Martin Luther King's concealed weapons permit was denied?

I already know the answer, but will entertain guesses for a while before revealing it.

Pasted from <http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=157817#entry4893369>

****************

Tom Ray, on 02 May 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:These people don't know what's good for blacks. Bloomberg does: throw 'em up against the wall and frisk 'em!
...2. Gun control has always been racist, and still is today with policies like "stop and frisk" and "may or may not issue" permits.

Quit advocating that our officials be allowed to use race to dispense our rights…

( Tom my buddy, I made so such claim, and shall avoid liar liar tangents here. This great discussion, if cleaned up a little bit, needs to be continued)

...and I will quit complaining about your advocacy of racist policies.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=160457&p=4680878>

************

Tom Ray Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:07 PM

Denying rights because of race is good, and MLK was glad to had his permit application denied for that reason. Got it.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=160457&p=4680878>
 
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jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,263
298
near Seattle, Wa
random said:
I see joe completely ignored my direct response to him about whether people in the U.S. Have a groundswell of opinion against guns. Not only is there no groundswell but it's just the opposite.

Jocal = lying cunt.
Ooops, there it is! The JB key indicator of frustration, the C word!

Maybe I'll stay in and ...

scarjo_popcorn.gif


NUH, I'm outta here.

(and I like the way her arm bumps her, ah, chest)
I fully admit I am frustrated by the willful ignorance and the deliberate stupid so on display here.
and yes, the chest squeeze is quite mezmerizing.
I meet no standards of "willfull ignorance." I am the hardest worker on the gun threads.

FIrst I organized and presented (using full text) all the current gun research in North America. (It took half of 2013 and 2014 to do so.)

A hush descended upon the Gun Club Choir.

Then I organized and presented the state-of-the-art conclusions of the social sciences. They are collaborative, and each is inclusive of the 2nd A.

These informed projects were satisfying work. I did it for your elk.

And to challenge your elk in every aspect of your entire SAF hyperbole.

I hope you didn't ignore all that knowledge, but none of it supported your cliche-type views.

"Willful ignorance and deliberate stupid" may apply to yourself, Jeffie, because...

1.You were wrong about 70% of gang violence happens during a secondary crime.

6.You were wrong about my owning a handgun (yet I had sorted that here a half-dozen times).

7. You are mistaken that the mentally ill cause violence. (Their overall violence figure is 4%.)

8. The idea that MADD's approach to drunk drivers precludes gun limitations has been opposed by NAS science.

As Cuntrinder the Great can see, "willful ignorance" may be a projection.

 
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G

Guest

Guest
VIle. Absolutely disgusting. You have been promoting racial misunderstanding for thirty days.

The gas from your swamp is affecting your better judgement. You are becoming intellectual pond scum.

I don't know the answer to this complex racial dynamic... but I'm certain it isn't more white or black gun culture.

You want to increase gun chaos among blacks? The brothers haven't been torn up enough by gun violence?

You are proposing vigilante values to solve create problems among blacks?

I can't explain why, but you sport a pattern of race-baiting. You point a lot of fingers WRT race.

I'm not sure what you have to offer in a conversation about racial diversity.

You use the blacks' gun violence numbers to promote your pro-gun idiocy? Then you lack social conscience, and are pretty much a loser, IMO.

]
I don't think joe quite understands the difference between reporting a story and promoting a cause or position. How does Tom posting a link about blacks wanting to use guns for vigilante ism and revolution somehow promoting that? Help me understand because this is a fascination look into a convoluted mind. Somebody should study you, joe. The mental health community could learn oodles.

 
G

Guest

Guest
I meet all standards of "willfull ignorance." I am the hardest worker on the gun threads.

FIrst I organized and presented (using full text) all the current gun research in North America. (It took half of 2013 and 2014 to do so.)

Then I organized and presented the state-of-the-art conclusions of the social sciences.

It was satisfying work. I did it for your elk.

And to challenge your elk in every aspect of your entire SAF hyperbole.
Good for you. And yet in all that blather. You still think there is a groundswell from the American public for more gun control. The disappointment that America doesn't share in your delusion must be gutting after all your hard work.

 
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G

Guest

Guest
R Booze said:
But there's just one teensy-eensy small problem, JokeAwf----only you and your two 'friends' here give a flying fuck about you, your 'stats', your opinions, your childish memes and your excruciatingly inane cut 'n pastes. All you've accomplished here since your debut is to make the rest of us despise you, your elks and the Brady Bunchers----and to get us dig our heels into the dirt even harder.

Oh yeah, and to buy more guns......
True dat. Oh and give more money to the NRA. I honestly never really liked the NRA and didn't see the point. Jocal opened my eyes to how his side thinks. So he does convince and change minds about guns, just not in the way he thinks he does.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,263
298
near Seattle, Wa
R Booze said:
I haven't read any of that kind of shit...in decades. Mostly 'cuz I don't give a flying fuk about polls or studies or opinions or whatever. I own guns 'cuz I like them...and 'cuz I can.

It's truly as simple as that....
It as simple as Gary Kleck is a key gun researcher for your elk. One of two.

Both got dissed by the scientific community. Both have been discussed on our forums, for good reasons.

Your only gun researchers are bunk, dude.

Hint: if you want to reach out for other researchers to help your cause, try Kates and Mauser, and Mark Gius.

Neither is peer-reviewed. Both are out-classed by the body of knowledge on the subject of gun violence in the USA.

 
G

Guest

Guest
Hey Joe. Guess what? The 2nd amendment trumps every study you can throw out there. The end.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,023
1,875
Punta Gorda FL
...2. Gun control has always been racist, and still is today with policies like "stop and frisk" and "may or may not issue" permits.

Quit advocating that our officials be allowed to use race to dispense our rights…

...
( Tom my buddy, I made so such claim, and shall avoid liar liar tangents here. This great discussion, if cleaned up a little bit, needs to be continued)
Yes, you have advocated it, and you continue to do so every time you promote "may issue" concealed carry laws. May issue means "may not" and for any reason a cop might choose.

As we've seen in other threads, one reason a cop might choose for any given action is racism.

All we gun nutters want is a list of acceptable reasons to deny a permit. I don't think race should be on that list. If any reason is acceptable, as in your "may issue" states, then that means ANY reason, Any means ANY. That means including race

If you want to exclude race as a reason, I'm happy to have you join the shall issue bandwagon. Can't we agree on a list of reasons that are good enough to deny a permit and also agree on a list of reasons that are wrong? I'll start: let's put race on the list of reasons that are wrong.

But you must first agree that there should be such a list and that it should be finite. This infinite authorization of "may issue" was wrong when MLK got his permit denied for racist reasons and continues to be wrong today.

 

Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
R Booze said:
There is NO SUCH THING as 'gun violence', you stupid fuk.....
I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.

 

Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,263
298
near Seattle, Wa
...2. Gun control has always been racist, and still is today with policies like "stop and frisk" and "may or may not issue" permits.

Quit advocating that our officials be allowed to use race to dispense our rights…

...
( Tom my buddy, I made so such claim, and shall avoid liar liar tangents here. This great discussion, if cleaned up a little bit, needs to be continued)
Yes, you have advocated it, (edit: that our officials be allowed to use race to dispense our rights) and you continue to do so every time you promote "may issue" concealed carry laws. May issue means "may not" and for any reason a cop might choose.

As we've seen in other threads, one reason a cop might choose for any given action is racism.

All we gun nutters want is a list of acceptable reasons to deny a permit. I don't think race should be on that list. If any reason is acceptable, as in your "may issue" states, then that means ANY reason, Any means ANY. That means including race

If you want to exclude race as a reason, I'm happy to have you join the shall issue bandwagon. Can't we agree on a list of reasons that are good enough to deny a permit and also agree on a list of reasons that are wrong? I'll start: let's put race on the list of reasons that are wrong.

But you must first agree that there should be such a list and that it should be finite. This infinite authorization of "may issue" was wrong when MLK got his permit denied for racist reasons and continues to be wrong today.
More race-baiting.

Tom, by twisting my point of view, are you promoting racial misunderstanding? Present YOUR OWN list of terms, if you want one presented, but the framework to apply it will need to include things like compassion, and the understanding of diversity.

To apply guns as a solution to race relations (???) is to be in a thoughtless rut. You've got your foot holding down the accelerator pedal for all things pro-gun. However, your reflection and compassion skills are needed to develop racial parity.

The white gun mentality has shortcomings. The black gun mentality is twisted too...but in a different (more convoluted) way.

Neither of these approaches will lead us to a healthy culture, IMO, since neither approach is healthy (or even considerate).

Please lay out your racial overview for us. Explain the incendiary: why you insist that Bloomberg and I are racist if we disagree with your pro-gun-rights policies.

Since you claim your guns are a last resort, they should not be framed as intrinsic to your racial hopes, goals, insights or methods.

Guns are making a mess of relating, on both sides, because they have a way of defeating the inner resources (such as understanding) which we need.

You are just hiding behind guns, I think, using the cache of MLK to dress up your gun-heavy, white-trash philosophy.

 
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