This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.
I didn't say that the government would be needed, Rockdog. My family could take my rifle away.

My friends, or SE or Random or Sean or The Flash or Hard On or Gouv BL or Scot could take it away.

The SA Gun Club, not so much.

I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.
That is some funny stuff, RD. Seriously.

If I didn't care about guns in the USA, we would never have met, boys.

Your problem is that Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy and I DO care about them.

Yo, it doesn't have to go down like this.

 
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nannygovtsucks

Super Anarchist
15,365
4
"For the first time in decades, a majority of Americans say it is more important to protect gun rights than it is to limit gun ownership, according to a December poll from the Pew Research Center."

"The same Pew poll found that a slight majority of women now believe owning a handgun can protect them from becoming victims of crime."

Looks like no one is listening to the Jocal much these days. Bummer.

 
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Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.
I didn't say that the government would be needed, Rockdog. My family could take my rifle away.

My friends, or SE or Random or Sean or The Flash or Hard On or Gouv BL or Scot could take it away.

The SA Gun Club, not so much.

I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.
That is some funny stuff, RD. Seriously.


If I didn't care about guns in the USA, we would never have met, boys.

Your problem is that Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy and I DO care about them.

Yo, it doesn't have to go down like this.
Ummn....we never have met.

I'm sorry but your posts usually don't make sense to me. Your life also contradicts the things you post. Due to that I disregard all that you post.

I'd love to know the real reason you so much anti gun stuff on here. Facts show you are not anti gun. What are you hiding? You can tell us. We won't judge you.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.
I didn't say that the government would be needed, Rockdog. My family could take my rifle away.

My friends, or SE or Random or Sean or The Flash or Hard On or Gouv BL or Scot could take it away.

The SA Gun Club, not so much.

I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.
That is some funny stuff, RD. Seriously.


If I didn't care about guns in the USA, we would never have met, boys.

Your problem is that Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy and I DO care about them.

Yo, it doesn't have to go down like this.
Ummn....we never have met.

I'm sorry but your posts usually don't make sense to me. Your life also contradicts the things you post. Due to that I disregard all that you post.

I'd love to know the real reason you so much anti gun stuff on here. Facts show you are not anti gun. What are you hiding? You can tell us. We won't judge you.
The direction of gun culture concerns me. These gun things require responsibility, but little of that is being shown by the Modern NRA.

Pitching concepts of "tyranny fighting" as the main benefit of the second amendment in 2015 is not acceptable to me.

Rendering the ATF useless concerns me; not accepting gutted background checks concerns me.

Making county gun statutes impossible in 40 states concerns me.

Ignoring the "well regulated militia" wordage of the second amendment is of great concern to me, especially if using manufactured, non peer-reviewed historical scholarship.

In short, moderate gunowners could find a path out of 85% of these numbers. They could play a role in defining, identifying, and enforcing high-risk-based gun situations. They could discredit the gun-extremists for what they are.

The gun culture itself to positively define and enforce what is un-cool. They could go with special licensing for AW's to limit their access to the unvetted masses.

Basics like background checks could be considered as a compromise to registration.

Moderates might distance themselves from insurrectionist rhetoric.

The present direction of the gun mentality is foolish, IMO, and has tones of lowbrow law-breaking (as opposed to true civil disobedience).

The gun culture has indicators that it needs strong opposition.

Rockdog, Anarchy, around here, is the act of pointing things like that out, as clearly as possible, while using broad sources.

 

Saorsa

Super Anarchist
36,796
422
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.
I didn't say that the government would be needed, Rockdog. My family could take my rifle away.

My friends, or SE or Random or Sean or The Flash or Hard On or Gouv BL or Scot could take it away.

The SA Gun Club, not so much.

I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.
That is some funny stuff, RD. Seriously.


If I didn't care about guns in the USA, we would never have met, boys.

Your problem is that Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy and I DO care about them.

Yo, it doesn't have to go down like this.
Ummn....we never have met.

I'm sorry but your posts usually don't make sense to me. Your life also contradicts the things you post. Due to that I disregard all that you post.

I'd love to know the real reason you so much anti gun stuff on here. Facts show you are not anti gun. What are you hiding? You can tell us. We won't judge you.
He really, really likes guns and lusts for the feeling of power that owning a couple gives him.

Unfortunately, so long as others own guns he must fear facing his own adequacy or lack thereof in regard to them.

 

Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.
I didn't say that the government would be needed, Rockdog. My family could take my rifle away.

My friends, or SE or Random or Sean or The Flash or Hard On or Gouv BL or Scot could take it away.

The SA Gun Club, not so much.

I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.
That is some funny stuff, RD. Seriously.


If I didn't care about guns in the USA, we would never have met, boys.

Your problem is that Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy and I DO care about them.

Yo, it doesn't have to go down like this.
Ummn....we never have met.
I'm sorry but your posts usually don't make sense to me. Your life also contradicts the things you post. Due to that I disregard all that you post.

I'd love to know the real reason you so much anti gun stuff on here. Facts show you are not anti gun. What are you hiding? You can tell us. We won't judge you.
The direction of gun culture concerns me. These gun things require responsibility, but little of that is being shown by the Modern NRA.

Pitching concepts of "tyranny fighting" as the main benefit of the second amendment in 2015 is not acceptable to me.

Rendering the ATF useless concerns me; not accepting gutted background checks concerns me.

Making county gun statutes impossible in 40 states concerns me.

Ignoring the "well regulated militia" wordage of the second amendment is of great concern to me, especially if using manufactured, non peer-reviewed historical scholarship.

In short, moderate gunowners could find a path out of 85% of these numbers. They could play a role in defining, identifying, and enforcing high-risk-based gun situations. They could discredit the gun-extremists for what they are.

The gun culture itself to positively define and enforce what is un-cool. They could go with special licensing for AW's to limit their access to the unvetted masses.

Basics like background checks could be considered as a compromise to registration.

Moderates might distance themselves from insurrectionist rhetoric.

The present direction of the gun mentality is foolish, IMO, and has tones of lowbrow law-breaking (as opposed to true civil disobedience).

The gun culture has indicators that it needs strong opposition.

Rockdog, Anarchy, around here, is the act of pointing things like that out, as clearly as possible, while using broad sources.
Putting away criminals who use guns would take care of the majority of the problem. Why not focus on criminals as without them guns are virtually harmless.
And, again, your above post rambles on and says nothing. Ensuring government over reach doesn't happen is the second most important reason someone should should have for owning a gun. If you think governments don't over reach you obviously don't live on our planet.

 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,078
1,886
Punta Gorda FL
...2. Gun control has always been racist, and still is today with policies like "stop and frisk" and "may or may not issue" permits.

Quit advocating that our officials be allowed to use race to dispense our rights…

...
( Tom my buddy, I made so such claim, and shall avoid liar liar tangents here. This great discussion, if cleaned up a little bit, needs to be continued)
Yes, you have advocated it, (edit: that our officials be allowed to use race to dispense our rights) and you continue to do so every time you promote "may issue" concealed carry laws. May issue means "may not" and for any reason a cop might choose.

As we've seen in other threads, one reason a cop might choose for any given action is racism.

All we gun nutters want is a list of acceptable reasons to deny a permit. I don't think race should be on that list. If any reason is acceptable, as in your "may issue" states, then that means ANY reason, Any means ANY. That means including race

If you want to exclude race as a reason, I'm happy to have you join the shall issue bandwagon. Can't we agree on a list of reasons that are good enough to deny a permit and also agree on a list of reasons that are wrong? I'll start: let's put race on the list of reasons that are wrong.

But you must first agree that there should be such a list and that it should be finite. This infinite authorization of "may issue" was wrong when MLK got his permit denied for racist reasons and continues to be wrong today.
...

The white gun mentality has shortcomings. The black gun mentality is twisted too...but in a different (more convoluted) way.

...

Please lay out your racial overview for us. Explain the incendiary: why you insist that Bloomberg and I are racist if we disagree with your pro-gun-rights policies.

...
As you showed in this thread, whites own guns at twice the rate of black people. If the guns cause the "mentality" you don't like, why are they causing it so much more among blacks?

Bloomberg advocates the gun/drug control policy of stop and frisk. If you want to know why that's racist, this link may help.

As for you, I'm not sure how much more clear I can make the bolded part above. You want to allow the exact same policy that you admit was applied in a racist manner against MLK. Knowingly allowing racial discrimination by government officials is wrong. We should prohibit it. "May issue" allows it.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,078
1,886
Punta Gorda FL
random said:
, why are they causing it so much more among blacks?
Mmmmm. Sounds racist Tom. Are these black people, of whom you speak, American citizens?
Check the source regarding the black people of whom jocal spoke. Since your ability to read and follow the thread is so limited, I'll paste it again for you.

Gee, Tom, thanks for the long argument containing nothing, about nothing.

I'm not sure what your point is. But chaos is the result of guns in the black community.

The fact that MLK got dissed on da gun permit has a grain of truth in it. Wonderful.

Again, big deal.

Are you saying that guns are a race equalizer? That "shall carry" is an anti-racism mechanism or champion?

State your distortion, whatever it is, clearly for us.

But the fact is that guns have devastated the black communities. Guns aren't working out there. Got it?

Enough already. STFU about how guns will protect the non-violent, MLK, or blacks.

Race, Based on available data from 1980 to 2008—[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]

(Data from FBI UCR and SHR reports.)

n Blacks were disproportionately represented as both homicide victims and off enders. Th e victimization rate for blacks (27.8 per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000). The off ending rate for blacks (34.4 per 100,000) was almost 8 times higher than the rate for whites (4.5 per 100,000) (table 1).

P11

Trends by race

Blacks were disproportionately represented among homicide victims and offenders.

n In 2008, the homicide victimization rate for blacks (19.6 homicides per 100,000) was 6 times higher than the rate for

whites (3.3 homicides per 100,000).

n The victimization rate for blacks peaked in the early 1990s, reaching a high of 39.4 homicides per 100,000 in 1991 (figure 17).

n After 1991, the victimization rate for blacks fell until 1999, when it stabilized near 20 homicides per 100,000.

n In 2008, the off ending rate for blacks (24.7 off enders per 100,000) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4 off enders per 100,000) (figure 18).

n The off ending rate for blacks showed a similar pattern to the victimization rate, peaking in the early 1990s at a high of 51.1 off enders per 100,000 in 1991.

n After 1991, the off ending rate for blacks declined until it reached 24 per 100,000 in 2004. Th e rate has since fluctuated, increasing to 28.4 off enders per 100,000 in 2006 before falling again to 24.7 off enders per 100,000 in 2008.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf


 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
What it is.

Tom, thanks for showing us how the U.S. gun problem is convoluting among blacks. The gun bloodbath you are denying is showing among parts of the socially frustrated black community. It speaks to the danger of the acceptance of guns.

The brothers' dynamic (social and economic frustration) is barely comparable to white gun mentality (which is composed of right-wing and insurrectionist-type belief systems). Both are misguided, IMO.

One can always find an exception or anomaly to a study conclusion (and you make a cottage industry of it). But to find such an exception does not disprove the overall evidence-based conclusion.

Tom Ray, your sustained race-baiting is trollish behavior. It adds nothing to the conversation. It displays a petty mind, one lost in blaming and misunderstanding.

Do us a favor. You are MLK curious. Go read a good book about that amazing man.

Abstract

Objective

Racism is related to policies preferences and behaviors that adversely affect blacks and appear related to a fear of blacks (e.g., increased policing, death penalty). This study examined whether racism is also related to gun ownership and opposition to gun controls in US whites.

Method

The most recent data from the American National Election Study, a large representative US sample, was used to test relationships between racism, gun ownership, and opposition to gun control in US whites. Explanatory variables known to be related to gun ownership and gun control opposition (i.e., age, gender, education, income, conservatism, anti-government sentiment, southern vs. other states, political identification) were entered in logistic regression models, along with measures of racism, and the stereotype of blacks as violent. Outcome variables included; having a gun in the home, opposition to bans on handguns in the home, support for permits to carry concealed handguns.

Results

After accounting for all explanatory variables, logistic regressions found that for each 1 point increase in symbolic racism there was a 50% increase in the odds of having a gun at home. After also accounting for having a gun in the home, there was still a 28% increase in support for permits to carry concealed handguns, for each one point increase in symbolic racism. The relationship between symbolic racism and opposition to banning handguns in the home (OR1.27 CI 1.03,1.58) was reduced to non-significant after accounting for having a gun in the home (OR1.17 CI.94,1.46), which likely represents self-interest in retaining property (guns).

Conclusions

Symbolic racism was related to having a gun in the home and opposition to gun control policies in US whites. The findings help explain US whites’ paradoxical attitudes towards gun ownership and gun control. Such attitudes may adversely influence US gun control policy debates and decisions.

Citation: O’Brien K, Forrest W, Lynott D, Daly M (2013) Racism, Gun Ownership and Gun Control: Biased Attitudes in US Whites May Influence Policy Decisions. PLoS ONE 8(10): e77552. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0077552

Editor: Brock Bastian, University of Queensland, Australia

Received: May 3, 2013; Accepted: September 7, 2013; Published: October 31, 2013

Copyright: © 2013 O’Brien et al. This is an open-access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.

Funding: These authors have no support or funding to report.

Competing interests: The authors have declared that no competing interests exist.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0077552>
This racial thing is feeding itself, Tom. It feeds on patterns of misunderstanding.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.
I didn't say that the government would be needed, Rockdog. My family could take my rifle away.

My friends, or SE or Random or Sean or The Flash or Hard On or Gouv BL or Scot could take it away.

The SA Gun Club, not so much.

I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.
That is some funny stuff, RD. Seriously.


If I didn't care about guns in the USA, we would never have met, boys.

Your problem is that Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy and I DO care about them.

Yo, it doesn't have to go down like this.
Ummn....we never have met.

I'm sorry but your posts usually don't make sense to me. Your life also contradicts the things you post. Due to that I disregard all that you post.

I'd love to know the real reason you so much anti gun stuff on here. Facts show you are not anti gun. What are you hiding? You can tell us. We won't judge you.
He really, really likes guns and lusts for the feeling of power that owning a couple gives him.

Unfortunately, so long as others own guns he must fear facing his own adequacy or lack thereof in regard to them.
I could surf on all the ad hominems. Personal attacks are all you have?

You feel a need to grab my gun, eh? The SA Gun Club, it hate me.

Your issue is that I offer a stream of learned, scientific conclusions...and nobody can debate them.

Saorsa et al, continue, and please analyze Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy.

How the Gun Industry Is Killing Americans

Sorry Folks, But Gun Rights And Civil Rights Don’t Mean The Same Thing.

Are you proposing to take their guns away because they criticize the extreme gun mentality? How does that sort?

I share their views. And I share gun ownership with them. I find honor in their hopes and views.

We have a right to our views, and our guns...but we recognize the damage in play.

The evidence-based facts are that communities with strong gun laws offer better community safety.

It is not about me, or taking my gun away.

 
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jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
The white gun mentality has shortcomings. The black gun mentality is twisted too...but in a different (more convoluted) way.

...

Please lay out your racial overview for us. Explain the incendiary: why you insist that Bloomberg and I are racist if we disagree with your pro-gun-rights policies.

...
As you showed in this thread, whites own guns at twice the rate of black people. If the guns cause the "mentality" you don't like, why are they causing it so much more among blacks?

The immature, short-sighted desire for gunpower is amplified, and more volatile, among blacks. Even more deadly than among whites.

Bloomberg advocates the gun/drug control policy of stop and frisk. If you want to know why that's racist, this link may help. Echo chamber time. The point is just not profound enough to discuss year after year.

As for you, I'm not sure how much more clear I can make the bolded part above. You want to allow the exact same policy that you admit was applied in a racist manner against MLK. Knowingly allowing racial discrimination by government officials is wrong. We should prohibit it. "May issue" allows it.
You have not laid out a workable approach for our races to co-exist. Far from it. You are just hawking guns, again.

"May issue" is not a magic racism-defeater, Badgeless One. And Mr. Bloomberg did not invent racism.

Your argument is pin-headed, short-sighted, and blind to the cultural costs of our races arming up against one another.

Violence begets violence. And you are a twit.

 
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jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
( Your life also contradicts the things you post. Due to that I disregard all that you post.

I'd love to know the real reason you so much anti gun stuff on here. Facts show you are not anti gun. What are you hiding? You can tell us. We won't judge you.)

He really, really likes guns and lusts for the feeling of power that owning a couple gives him.

Unfortunately, so long as others own guns he must fear facing his own adequacy or lack thereof in regard to them.
Exposed again.

.
Post210JBSF.jpg


 
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Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
The fact jocal owns a gun that he says he won't get rid of unless the government takes away due to not passing a background check trumps every single ones of his previous posts. He is a contradiction but actions trump words.
I didn't say that the government would be needed, Rockdog. My family could take my rifle away.

My friends, or SE or Random or Sean or The Flash or Hard On or Gouv BL or Scot could take it away.

The SA Gun Club, not so much.

I think in Jocals nightmares he's being chased by a defective gun firing by itself and he's a varmint that can't get away.
That is some funny stuff, RD. Seriously.


If I didn't care about guns in the USA, we would never have met, boys.

Your problem is that Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy and I DO care about them.

Yo, it doesn't have to go down like this.
Ummn....we never have met.

I'm sorry but your posts usually don't make sense to me. Your life also contradicts the things you post. Due to that I disregard all that you post.

I'd love to know the real reason you so much anti gun stuff on here. Facts show you are not anti gun. What are you hiding? You can tell us. We won't judge you.
He really, really likes guns and lusts for the feeling of power that owning a couple gives him.

Unfortunately, so long as others own guns he must fear facing his own adequacy or lack thereof in regard to them.
I could surf on all the ad hominems. Personal attacks are all you have?

You feel a need to grab my gun, eh? The SA Gun Club, it hate me.

Your issue is that I offer a stream of learned, scientific conclusions...and nobody can debate them.

Saorsa et al, continue, and please analyze Tom Diaz and Mike the Gun Guy.

How the Gun Industry Is Killing Americans

Sorry Folks, But Gun Rights And Civil Rights Dont Mean The Same Thing.

Are you proposing to take their guns away because they criticize the extreme gun mentality? How does that sort?

I share their views. And I share gun ownership with them. I find honor in their hopes and views.

We have a right to our views, and our guns...but we recognize the damage in play.

The evidence-based facts are that communities with strong gun laws offer better community safety.

It is not about me, or taking my gun away.
What has anything tom has posted been racist? Seems to be posting posting government supplied data. If that is racist then anything that looks at differences among races is racist. Seems to disprove "more guns = more violence by means of gun".

No one here wants to grab your gun. Quite the opposite. My perception of you is that you believe you are superior to other gun owners. You seem to reject the concept of gun ownership purely for sport and/or personal enjoyment or utilitarian reasons.

Chicago was by law gun free for a while and violence by use of gun didn't stop. I don't want my liberties taken away due to trash that can't behave in a civil manner. Focus on the criminals.

Toms approach on drugs is drug users are going to use drugs no matter what so decriminalize the drugs themselves. Contrary to my idea but just may work. Same goes for guns I'm afraid.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,078
1,886
Punta Gorda FL
The white gun mentality has shortcomings. The black gun mentality is twisted too...but in a different (more convoluted) way.

...

Please lay out your racial overview for us. Explain the incendiary: why you insist that Bloomberg and I are racist if we disagree with your pro-gun-rights policies.

...
As you showed in this thread, whites own guns at twice the rate of black people. If the guns cause the "mentality" you don't like, why are they causing it so much more among blacks?

The immature, short-sighted desire for gunpower is amplified, and more volatile, among blacks. Even more deadly than among whites.

Bloomberg advocates the gun/drug control policy of stop and frisk. If you want to know why that's racist, this link may help. Echo chamber time. The point is just not profound enough to discuss year after year.

As for you, I'm not sure how much more clear I can make the bolded part above. You want to allow the exact same policy that you admit was applied in a racist manner against MLK. Knowingly allowing racial discrimination by government officials is wrong. We should prohibit it. "May issue" allows it.
You have not laid out a workable approach for our races to co-exist. Far from it. You are just hawking guns, again.

"May issue" is not a magic racism-defeater, Badgeless One. And Mr. Bloomberg did not invent racism.

Your argument is pin-headed, short-sighted, and blind to the cultural costs of our races arming up against one another.

Violence begets violence. And you are a twit.
How does that black gun violence amplifier work, anyway?

You have not laid out a workable approach either. But at least I object to government discrimination when it comes to guns. You are unable to object to any form of gun control, even racist ones like "may issue" carry licenses.

I never said Bloomberg invented racism, just pointed out that he, like you, promotes racist policies.

I don't see blacks acquiring guns as "arming up against whites" nor do I see whites who acquire guns as "arming up against blacks." That sick thought came from your head, not anything I wrote.

 
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Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
random said:
R Booze said:
JokeAwf? Have finally figured out yet that you have done nothing for 'your side' except fail? Quite the opposite in fact, as you have actually done more harm than good? Not a single fuking one of us is gonna suddenly quit the shooting sports and hand over our guns, just because of all the tiresome drivel you've posted over the years. None of us FUKING CARE. So you should probably quit your trolling now and go find another hobby....besides making yourself look like a Tool 1st Class. So if you really wanna 'help', I highly suggest you go back into the inner cities wave your magic fuking wand over the heads of the gang bangers and criminals...

End: Gives up, says he doesn't care.

Which kinda defeats the purpose of calling you 'wrong' in the first place.
Old.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,078
1,886
Punta Gorda FL
Uh oh.

Second amendment solutions.

This Week on the New Black Panther Party’s “Black Power Radio,” national chairman Hashim Nzinga said since America has “declared war on us,” evidenced by “military police in the black neighborhood” protecting the rich, the New Black Panthers should be looked upon as Founding Fathers who declare war and are “willing to die or kill to save our babies and to save a black nation that is dying before our eyes.”

Nzinga said, “America is about protecting the rich and the powerful.”

He added, “We pay taxes. They have declared war on us and it’s nothing but state racism.”

“So if we say we are at war, we should be applauded like George Washington,” Nzinga continued. “We should be applauded like Thomas Jefferson. We should be applauded like the Founding Fathers of the country.”

“This is not the hate hour, this is the love hour,”he added....



VIle. Absolutely disgusting. You have been promoting racial misunderstanding for thirty days.

The gas from your swamp is affecting your better judgement. You are becoming intellectual pond scum.

I don't know the answer to this complex racial dynamic... but I'm certain it isn't more white or black gun culture.

You want to increase gun chaos among blacks? The brothers haven't been torn up enough by gun violence?

You are proposing vigilante values to solve create problems among blacks?

I can't explain why, but you sport a pattern of race-baiting. You point a lot of fingers WRT race.

I'm not sure what you have to offer in a conversation about racial diversity.

You use the blacks' gun violence numbers to promote your pro-gun idiocy? Then you lack social conscience, and are pretty much a loser, IMO.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to cut Mr. Nzinga's words out of my post when quoting it. I don't feel any need to censor black activists when they talk about guns, even if their ideas are vaguely reminiscent of what you call "right-wing and insurrectionist-type belief systems."

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,078
1,886
Punta Gorda FL
We spend a lot of time together here. To aid our mutual understanding, and for the benefit of our guns in the USA, please give this post a careful read.

For the benefit of an important discussion, let's avoid personal attacks and spurious comments.

Gun Ownership Is Declining...So Why Is the Gun Lobby So Powerful?

March 25, 2015

by Bernie Horn

This post first appeared at Campaign for America’s Future.

...
Intelligent discussion from the SA Gun Club, if possible, is welcome.
Hmmm... following that link and links on the page, I got here.

In 2010-14, household firearms ownership was higher among households with white respondents (39.0%) than among those with black respondents (18.1%)(Table 4).
So if guns cause violence and whites own guns at more than twice the rate of blacks, how did jocal show at post 127 that the homicide rate among blacks is six times higher than among whites?

Maybe the gun ownership rate is not the problem?
Now that you've identified the problem, can you expand on it some?

The immature, short-sighted desire for gunpower is amplified, and more volatile, among blacks. Even more deadly than among whites.

...

And you are a twit.

A twit like me can't see how the amplified and volatile desire for gunpower is working to create the problems you noted.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,266
299
near Seattle, Wa
The white gun mentality has shortcomings. The black gun mentality is twisted too...but in a different (more convoluted) way.

...

Please lay out your racial overview for us. Explain the incendiary: why you insist that Bloomberg and I are racist if we disagree with your pro-gun-rights policies.

...
As you showed in this thread, whites own guns at twice the rate of black people. If the guns cause the "mentality" you don't like, why are they causing it so much more among blacks?

The immature, short-sighted desire for gunpower is amplified, and more volatile, among blacks. Even more deadly than among whites.

Bloomberg advocates the gun/drug control policy of stop and frisk. If you want to know why that's racist, this link may help. Echo chamber time. The point is just not profound enough to discuss year after year.

As for you, I'm not sure how much more clear I can make the bolded part above. You want to allow the exact same policy that you admit was applied in a racist manner against MLK. Knowingly allowing racial discrimination by government officials is wrong. We should prohibit it. "May issue" allows it.
You have not laid out a workable approach for our races to co-exist. Far from it. You are just hawking guns, again.

"May issue" is not a magic racism-defeater, Badgeless One. And Mr. Bloomberg did not invent racism.

Your argument is pin-headed, short-sighted, and blind to the cultural costs of our races arming up against one another.

Violence begets violence. And you are a twit.
How does that black gun violence amplifier work, anyway?

You have not laid out a workable approach either. But at least I object to government discrimination when it comes to guns. You are unable to object to any form of gun control, even racist ones like "may issue" carry licenses.

I never said Bloomberg invented racism, just pointed out that he, like you, promotes racist policies.

I don't see blacks acquiring guns as "arming up against whites" nor do I see whites who acquire guns as "arming up against blacks." That sick thought came from your head, not anything I wrote.
I am not interjecting race into our threads. You are.

Look shithead, I sit at the table of a Chicago R&B great, based on relationships.

My policy proposal is suggested above: less gun mentality, and more understanding skills, for both races, until equal means equal.

Now let's hear your plan, because you seem to be a race-baiter.

You call Bloomberg a racist, repeatedly, because his gun crackdowns lead to "stop and frisk" policies.

Your broad brush strokes make any Bloomberg supporter a racist.

You called me a racist for posting an Angry White Males cartoon. WTF?

You label all who do not support the indiscretion of "shall issue" as supporters of racist policy...suggesting they are racists.

You have promoted more guns within the black community, as a solution to their gun problem. WTF?

You are trying to take the convoluted violence problem in the black community, which is exacerbated by guns within a subset of the black community, to disprove the demographic that higher gun ownership has been linked to more homicides and that aggravated assault rises when RTC laws are adopted.

That is a very weak train of thought, IMO. No traction. Not worth repeating... but you post about it for months.

Badgeless Wonder, please consider the frailty of the Gun Club Choir, while proposing all your racial misunderstanding. Simple Jeff is susceptible to influence. He and Boothy, until corrected, were blaming most gun violence on black gangstas. Stupid shit. They got it from Dana Loesch.

You see, your elk are uneasy about race...while I am dancing with black women, by invitation.

You have a lot to learn.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
62,078
1,886
Punta Gorda FL
You label all who do not support the indiscretion of "shall issue" as supporters of racist policy...suggesting they are racists.
You got one thing mostly right. Well, maybe the shithead thing too, but I'll comment on this one.

The last part is wrong. I'm suggesting they drop their support if they are not racists. I'm suggesting that to you.

Why give government officials limitless discretion when you know it has led to racist results in the past and there are good reasons to suspect it will again?

And it's not just race, by the way. May issue means government officials can discriminate against us for political views, religious reasons, or just because they are having a bad day. None of those are good reasons.

 

Rockdog

Super Anarchist
7,833
0
Illinois
The white gun mentality has shortcomings. The black gun mentality is twisted too...but in a different (more convoluted) way.

...

Please lay out your racial overview for us. Explain the incendiary: why you insist that Bloomberg and I are racist if we disagree with your pro-gun-rights policies....
As you showed in this thread, whites own guns at twice the rate of black people. If the guns cause the "mentality" you don't like, why are they causing it so much more among blacks?

The immature, short-sighted desire for gunpower is amplified, and more volatile, among blacks. Even more deadly than among whites.

Bloomberg advocates the gun/drug control policy of stop and frisk. If you want to know why that's racist, this link may help. Echo chamber time. The point is just not profound enough to discuss year after year.

As for you, I'm not sure how much more clear I can make the bolded part above. You want to allow the exact same policy that you admit was applied in a racist manner against MLK. Knowingly allowing racial discrimination by government officials is wrong. We should prohibit it. "May issue" allows it.
You have not laid out a workable approach for our races to co-exist. Far from it. You are just hawking guns, again.

"May issue" is not a magic racism-defeater, Badgeless One. And Mr. Bloomberg did not invent racism.

Your argument is pin-headed, short-sighted, and blind to the cultural costs of our races arming up against one another.

Violence begets violence. And you are a twit.
How does that black gun violence amplifier work, anyway?

You have not laid out a workable approach either. But at least I object to government discrimination when it comes to guns. You are unable to object to any form of gun control, even racist ones like "may issue" carry licenses.

I never said Bloomberg invented racism, just pointed out that he, like you, promotes racist policies.

I don't see blacks acquiring guns as "arming up against whites" nor do I see whites who acquire guns as "arming up against blacks." That sick thought came from your head, not anything I wrote.
I am not interjecting race into our threads. You are.

Look shithead, I sit at the table of a Chicago R&B great, based on relationships.

My policy proposal is suggested above: less gun mentality, and more understanding skills, for both races, until equal means equal.

Now let's hear your plan, because you seem to be a race-baiter.

You call Bloomberg a racist, repeatedly, because his gun crackdowns lead to "stop and frisk" policies.

Your broad brush strokes make any Bloomberg supporter a racist.

You called me a racist for posting an Angry White Males cartoon. WTF?

You label all who do not support the indiscretion of "shall issue" as supporters of racist policy...suggesting they are racists.

You have promoted more guns within the black community, as a solution to their gun problem. WTF?

You are trying to take the convoluted violence problem in the black community, which is exacerbated by guns within a subset of the black community, to disprove the demographic that higher gun ownership has been linked to more homicides and that aggravated assault rises when RTC laws are adopted.

That is a very weak train of thought, IMO. No traction. Not worth repeating... but you post about it for months.

Badgeless Wonder, please consider the frailty of the Gun Club Choir, while proposing all your racial misunderstanding. Simple Jeff is susceptible to influence. He and Boothy, until corrected, were blaming most gun violence on black gangstas. Stupid shit. They got it from Dana Loesch.

You see, your elk are uneasy about race...while I am dancing with black women, by invitation.

You have a lot to learn.
Man o man. W.t.f. does dancing with black women have to do with posting of government supplied data?

 




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