This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

[Pertinacious Tom]

Do Black People Have Equal Gun Rights?

Until around 1970, the aims of America’s firearms restrictionists and the aims of America’s racists were practically inextricable. In both the colonial and immediate post-Revolutionary periods, the first laws regulating gun ownership were aimed squarely at blacks and Native Americans. In both the Massachusetts and Plymouth colonies, it was illegal for the colonists to sell guns to natives, while Virginia and Tennessee banned gun ownership by free blacks.

In the antebellum period, the chief justice of the United States, Roger B. Taney, wrote a grave warning into the heart of the execrable Dred Scott decision. If blacks were permitted to become citizens, Taney cautioned, they, like whites, would have full liberty to “keep and carry arms wherever they went.”

White Southerners would eventually be forced to accept blacks as their fellow citizens. But old habits died hard. After the Civil War, many Southern states enacted Black Codes to prohibit ownership of guns by blacks. The measures served their purpose. In her remarkable 1892 disquisition on the evils of lynching, the writer Ida B. Wells noted that “the only times an Afro-American who was assaulted got away has been when he had a gun and used it in self-defense.” Wells offered some blunt advice: “a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”


At the height of the civil rights movement, black freedom fighters took Wells’s counsel seriously. Although he was denied a concealed-carry permit, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had what his adviser Glenn E. Smiley described as a veritable “arsenal” at home.

Far from being a digression from the principle of nonviolence, this willingness to defend oneself was heir to a long, proud tradition. Considering in 1850 what he believed to be the best response to the Fugitive Slave Act, Frederick Douglass proposed: “a good revolver.”

Former Chief Justice Taney sure had an interesting view of gun rights.

At least he had the good sense to realize that you can't just let black people keep and bear arms wherever they go as if they were white or something.

 

[Grrr...]

May issue, shall issue, will issue, won't issue, could issue, can't issue, might issue ...

Concealed Carry is going to erode the Second Amendment because a right doesn't require permission from someone if you've retained your rights, either guaranteed or not. You concealed carry nuts are going to do it to yourselves and you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves.

And yeah, I get that some states have CC without permit, and others allow OC but some condition it, etc., etc.. Go blame the anti-nutters, go blame the politicians, go blame everyone but yourselves. If you can't feel comfortable with your firearm displayed openly then you shouldn't be carrying a weapon, that's my opinion, insult away, if I hear something new I'll let you know, otherwise, my silence indicates your repetition.

Yeah. And guns kill people, right?

Concealed carry isn't going to erode any amendments. Stupid People are.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

You need to light the cliffsignal, Grrr.

Let me help.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Do Black People Have Equal Gun Rights?

Until around 1970, the aims of America’s firearms restrictionists and the aims of America’s racists were practically inextricable. In both the colonial and immediate post-Revolutionary periods, the first laws regulating gun ownership were aimed squarely at blacks and Native Americans. In both the Massachusetts and Plymouth colonies, it was illegal for the colonists to sell guns to natives, while Virginia and Tennessee banned gun ownership by free blacks.

In the antebellum period, the chief justice of the United States, Roger B. Taney, wrote a grave warning into the heart of the execrable Dred Scott decision. If blacks were permitted to become citizens, Taney cautioned, they, like whites, would have full liberty to “keep and carry arms wherever they went.”

White Southerners would eventually be forced to accept blacks as their fellow citizens. But old habits died hard. After the Civil War, many Southern states enacted Black Codes to prohibit ownership of guns by blacks. The measures served their purpose. In her remarkable 1892 disquisition on the evils of lynching, the writer Ida B. Wells noted that “the only times an Afro-American who was assaulted got away has been when he had a gun and used it in self-defense.” Wells offered some blunt advice: “a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give.”


At the height of the civil rights movement, black freedom fighters took Wells’s counsel seriously. Although he was denied a concealed-carry permit, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. had what his adviser Glenn E. Smiley described as a veritable “arsenal” at home.

Far from being a digression from the principle of nonviolence, this willingness to defend oneself was heir to a long, proud tradition. Considering in 1850 what he believed to be the best response to the Fugitive Slave Act, Frederick Douglass proposed: “a good revolver.”

Former Chief Justice Taney sure had an interesting view of gun rights.

At least he had the good sense to realize that you can't just let black people keep and bear arms wherever they go as if they were white or something.

Gungrabbers are as racist as ever, but now irrationally fear whites instead of blacks.

“Suggestion: we don’t have to vaporize all the guns. Let’s just vaporize white men’s guns,” Grimes tweeted, linking to an article about Arizona shooter Ryan Giroux.

“White guys cannot be trusted to use guns responsibly. It is time to stop giving guns to white guys,” Grimes added. ”I mean, it’s time to stop giving guns to everybody, but we can start with the white guys.”

 

[Mark K]

This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

...A noted journalist and professor at Brown University, Cobb recently published, “This Nonviolent Stuff’ll Get You Killed,” a look at firearms inside the Civil Rights movement, which includes a firsthand account of his experiences.

Cobb maintained in a recent interview with NPR that he witnessed the untold story of guns inside the civil rights movement. He gained that experience as a field secretary for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) in Mississippi from 1962 to 1967.

The SNCC was one of the most important organizations of the American Civil Rights Movement.

“I worked in the South. I lived with families in the South,” explained Cobb to NPR. “There was never a family I stayed with that didn’t have a gun. I know from personal experience and the experiences of others that guns kept people alive, kept communities safe. And all you have to do to understand this is simply think of black people as human beings, and they’re going to respond to terrorism the way anybody else would.”

Cobb went on in the interview to describe an encounter that a journalist had with Dr. Martin Luther King while visiting the civil rights leader at his Montgomery home, where King had frequently received death threats.

An associate of King’s cautioned the journalist before he sat down in an armchair that there was not just one, but “a couple of guns” hidden in that particular piece of furniture.

King later applied for a concealed carry permit to the local sheriff and was denied, but, according to Cobb, “Martin King always acknowledged, if you read his writings, the right to self-defense – armed self-defense.”...

Does anyone want to guess at the reason Martin Luther King's concealed weapons permit was denied?

I already know the answer, but will entertain guesses for a while before revealing it.

That didn't get him killed. Being armed is no defense against a concealed sniper who waits for you to walk out of a motel room and gets a head shot in before you have any way to know he is even there.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

...A noted journalist and professor at Brown University, Cobb recently published, “This Nonviolent Stuff’ll Get You Killed,” a look at firearms inside the Civil Rights movement, which includes a firsthand account of his experiences.

Cobb maintained in a recent interview with NPR that he witnessed the untold story of guns inside the civil rights movement. He gained that experience as a field secretary for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) in Mississippi from 1962 to 1967.

The SNCC was one of the most important organizations of the American Civil Rights Movement.

“I worked in the South. I lived with families in the South,” explained Cobb to NPR. “There was never a family I stayed with that didn’t have a gun. I know from personal experience and the experiences of others that guns kept people alive, kept communities safe. And all you have to do to understand this is simply think of black people as human beings, and they’re going to respond to terrorism the way anybody else would.”

Cobb went on in the interview to describe an encounter that a journalist had with Dr. Martin Luther King while visiting the civil rights leader at his Montgomery home, where King had frequently received death threats.

An associate of King’s cautioned the journalist before he sat down in an armchair that there was not just one, but “a couple of guns” hidden in that particular piece of furniture.

King later applied for a concealed carry permit to the local sheriff and was denied, but, according to Cobb, “Martin King always acknowledged, if you read his writings, the right to self-defense – armed self-defense.”...

Does anyone want to guess at the reason Martin Luther King's concealed weapons permit was denied?

I already know the answer, but will entertain guesses for a while before revealing it.

That didn't get him killed. Being armed is no defense against a concealed sniper who waits for you to walk out of a motel room and gets a head shot in before you have any way to know he is even there.

True, but doesn't address the question. Any idea why his application for a CWP was denied? Even a wildass guess?

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

White Americans are still shit scared that the slaves will revolt.

Before you solve our problems, are you ever going to answer my question about Aussie Apartheid?

And about when the weather gets in the way ... not sure that you have noticed but over here we have our fair share of natural disasters. Floods, fires, cyclones, had one recently. Had 500mm rain fall here in a two days, road out cut. I have spent a lot of time in cyclone prone areas and no one, no one keeps guns to ward off the scary natives.

Your spin is about selling fear and fucking weapons. BUT Now I'm so fuckin scared! I might get a gun so I can sleep.

Ever had one that wiped out your electrical grid? Those can happen, you know.

Has your government ever fallen? That happens to all of them too, eventually. Not spin, just history.

Speaking of natives, I know you're justifiably concerned about the Apartheid practices of our FBI. Have you looked into solving Aussie Apartheid yet? Looks to me like your government is doing the same thing you denounce in ours.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Have you looked into solving Aussie Apartheid yet? Looks to me like your government is doing the same thing you denounce in ours.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

So what has that got to do with my claim that white Americans are scared of a slave revolt?

I just thought that your concern for racism here should be matched by my concern for racism there.

But you're right, gun control was racist as the quote above from Justice Taney clearly indicated. Mark K probably won't answer my question, but I will: it continued to be racist when MLK was denied his concealed weapons permit. And it continues to be racist in policies like stop and frisk, to name one example.

More broadly, all prohibitions are about the same thing: us vs them. Gun control is no exception.

 

[jocal505]

May issue, shall issue, will issue, won't issue, could issue, can't issue, might issue ...

Concealed Carry is going to erode the Second Amendment because a right doesn't require permission from someone if you've retained your rights, either guaranteed or not. You concealed carry nuts are going to do it to yourselves and you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves.

And yeah, I get that some states have CC without permit, and others allow OC but some condition it, etc., etc.. Go blame the anti-nutters, go blame the politicians, go blame everyone but yourselves. If you can't feel comfortable with your firearm displayed openly then you shouldn't be carrying a weapon, that's my opinion, insult away, if I hear something new I'll let you know, otherwise, my silence indicates your repetition.

I understand your point, but, the very real fact is that the mere presence of a weapon greatly upsets some folks. Consideration and prudence would suggest that taking a small action to avoid this unintentional upset is a good thing.

We agree, Guy. Guns are dangerous: a reaction is entirely normal. To carry openly is to be inflammatory, and offensive; each OC is the worst gun PR imaginable, IMO.

We've had OC in WA forever, and I've never seen an OC carrier, not even in the boonies. I attribute that to good taste/sensibility, and to, well, mature peer pressure.

 

[jocal505]

This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

place smarmy, coy, and smug phlegm here; add FL swamp gas...

Does anyone want to guess at the reason Martin Luther King's concealed weapons permit was denied?

I already know the answer, but will entertain guesses for a while before revealing it.

Tom this (see quote) is your favorite game. In fact, this is your only game.

You should reach out to know this real man. (You are MLK-curious.)

You use him as a foil, a lot, but you have not discovered his...core purpose.

You are a jerk: MLK's non-violent stuff actually prevented countless killings.

This man blessed America, intentionally, and pointedly, without guns.

You defile his memory. You are not worthy to mention him Tom.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

May issue, shall issue, will issue, won't issue, could issue, can't issue, might issue ...

Concealed Carry is going to erode the Second Amendment because a right doesn't require permission from someone if you've retained your rights, either guaranteed or not. You concealed carry nuts are going to do it to yourselves and you'll have nobody to blame but yourselves.

And yeah, I get that some states have CC without permit, and others allow OC but some condition it, etc., etc.. Go blame the anti-nutters, go blame the politicians, go blame everyone but yourselves. If you can't feel comfortable with your firearm displayed openly then you shouldn't be carrying a weapon, that's my opinion, insult away, if I hear something new I'll let you know, otherwise, my silence indicates your repetition.

I understand your point, but, the very real fact is that the mere presence of a weapon greatly upsets some folks. Consideration and prudence would suggest that taking a small action to avoid this unintentional upset is a good thing.

We agree, Guy. Guns are dangerous: a reaction is entirely normal. To carry openly is to be inflammatory, and offensive; each OC is the worst gun PR imaginable, IMO.

We've had OC in WA forever, and I've never seen an OC carrier, not even in the boonies. I attribute that to good taste/sensibility, and to, well, mature peer pressure.

Oh dear. The only responsibly way to carry is openly and notoriously. I don't have time to explain it to you this morning, but maybe someone will come along who can elaborate at great length for you. I'll light the cliffsignal.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

...Cobb went on in the interview to describe an encounter that a journalist had with Dr. Martin Luther King while visiting the civil rights leader at his Montgomery home, where King had frequently received death threats.

An associate of King’s cautioned the journalist before he sat down in an armchair that there was not just one, but “a couple of guns” hidden in that particular piece of furniture.

King later applied for a concealed carry permit to the local sheriff and was denied, but, according to Cobb, “Martin King always acknowledged, if you read his writings, the right to self-defense – armed self-defense.”

Does anyone want to guess at the reason Martin Luther King's concealed weapons permit was denied?

I already know the answer, but will entertain guesses for a while before revealing it.

Tom this (see quote) is your favorite game. In fact, this is your only game.

You should reach out to know this real man. (You are MLK-curious.)

You use him as a foil, a lot, but you have not discovered his...core purpose.

You are a jerk: MLK's non-violent stuff actually prevented countless killings.

This man blessed America, intentionally, and pointedly, without guns.

You defile his memory. You are not worthy to mention him Tom.

So he was denied his permit because I'm a jerk?

How could that be? I wasn't even around at the time.

I think my explanation is more plausible: racist gun controllers wouldn't let a black man get a permit.

 

[jocal505]

This Non-Violent Stuff Will Get You Killed

place total vacuum here

Does anyone want to guess at the reason Martin Luther King's concealed weapons permit was denied?

I already know the answer, but will entertain guesses for a while before revealing it.

Tom this (see quote) is your favorite game. In fact, this is your only game.

You should reach out to know this real man. (You are MLK-curious.)

You use him as a foil, a lot, but you have not discovered his...core purpose.

You are a jerk: MLK's non-violent stuff actually prevented countless killings.

This man blessed America, intentionally, and pointedly, without guns.

You defile his memory. You are not worthy to mention him Tom.

So he was denied his permit because I'm a jerk?

How could that be? I wasn't even around at the time.

I think my explanation is more plausible: racist gun controllers wouldn't let a black man get a permit.

Vacuous acuity. I see. How many dozen times do you feel you need to make that point?

Can't you get beyond it? Your trite detail is lost in a broader social landscape.

You defile MLK , sir, by making him your "shall issue" poster boy.

Bless your clueless heart, he was all about the opposite of armed self-defense.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

OK, educate me. What was his core purpose in acquiring guns and applying for a concealed weapons permit? Those seem like the kinds of things an evil person who believes in self defense would do. Why would MLK do them?

 

[jocal505]

OK, educate me. What was his core purpose in acquiring guns and applying for a concealed weapons permit? Those seem like the kinds of things an evil person who believes in self defense would do. Why would MLK do them?

Dumbass stuff, Mr. Ray.

Sorry, you are not worth this discussion.

 

[spankoka]

I think a person could carry a gun for their own protection and still be non-violent. It's not as if MKL was roaming around looking for gunfights.

 

[A guy in the Chesapeake]

This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by jocal505. View it anyway?

 

[PDG]

It ain't the "media's" fault for reporting the news. Watch any local news channel. Somewhere in the first couple of minutes will be a story of someone being shot. A local story. It happens so often it's not national news unless it's 5 or more being killed at once, or someone famous.

It happens so often its barely news. Like car crashes, or heart attacks.

In Israel open carry is common, and it's not intimidating because it's so common. It would be best to have all the CC folks OC. take away the fear.

No, but it is the media's fault for characterizing something as so common that I should be afraid to stick my head out the front door for fear I'll be shot and killed.

Do shootings happen? Of course they do. Is gun related violence a problem that should be addressed? Sure it is. Are Shootings "common"? I don't even know what you mean by that word. But I know I provide field service for dialysis centers and home patients in the greater Seattle area, including the worst places the area has to offer, and have for the past 22 years. Guess how many times I've been shot and killed? I realize Seattle is a pretty rural Podunk place, but you'd think by now I'd have been killed at least half a dozen times already, what with how common it is...

The proliferation of firearms in this country is, in my opinion, a problem, especially as it facilitates access of same to non- law-abiding citizens. But the hand-wringing fear mongering is counterproductive and wrong headed besides. Cars kill more people a year than guns, shouldn't everyone be afraid of cars too?

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Black Panthers Encourage Firearms Proliferation

...Now Darren X says he wants black people to start feeling safe again when they walk along America’s streets.

“Our initiative is for black men and women to start arming themselves and for us to start patrolling our own communities. That way we have a visual, we have an eye on what is going on in our neighborhoods. So our mission is to arm every black man that can legally be armed throughout the Unites States of America,” he said....

It's Chief Justice Taney's nightmare come to life! The horror.