To the 14'ers - Upwind Techniques

[Chiz]

I've been crew for a couple of years, this is my first year skipping and I am having trouble going fast upwind.

After reading some articles, I've been focusing on not pinching (bad laser habits), but last night (10-12 kn) it felt like i was way footing and still going slow. Basically I have a hard time finding/keeping the groove. It's frustrating as hell.

Any suggestions? the stuff I have read says any less then 6" of ease on the main and you are pinching... seem right? what upwind angle are you guys sailing?

 

[Irrational 14]

So many places to start here...

There are many factors that come into play. Some is technique and some is boat setup. To oversimplify this:

Check your rake settings and compare to other similar 14's that are going higher and faster than you. This should be your first step. How old is your jib? Are you sheeting it properly for 10-12 (flat to slight twist depending on your crew weight)? What's your rig tension? Board Height? You can drop the bow down to accelerate and then once the foils are working, point a bit higher.

The best thing to do is try and pace another 14 upwind and try adjusting these items one at a time until you get some improvement. Make notes and calibrate the beast. Two boat testing is without a doubt the fastest way to improve.

 

[Chiz]

I'm the only 14 on the lake, unfortunately. In 10-12kn, how much rake should you have? The sails are older and the guy who I bought it from moved the jib cleats to the fordeck - bad shape to the jib. Lots of mast bend to help an older sail (and a ligher crew), board up about 4". It just felt stalled out, kinda flat. NOT like a 14 is supposed to feel

 

[Pete M]

when in doubt let it out - easy to pinch off the jib slot when the main is sheeted out - make sure the jib leach telltails are streaming

 

[BalticBandit]

when in doubt let it out - easy to pinch off the jib slot when the main is sheeted out - make sure the jib leach telltails are streaming

Its hard if you are the only I14 in the area. One way to dial up is to first focus on going equally fast to other 14s, and then start working on getting height

In 10-12, you should be between your straightest setting and your mid-air setting - depending on how heavy you and your crew are together - ie you should not have much bend in the mast or a lot of rake

with light crew (that's what you mentioned) in these conditions you should probably be full 2 strings, in which case you probably need to ease the jib a skosh and then go nose down until the boat unsticks

That means easing the main until the boat starts to move. Then once you have speed, bring the main in 2 clicks at at time until you start slowing down, then ease back out and start the cycle again.

Once you figure out how to get this cycle of Speed-Height-Speed, you can start tuning jib trim. Start with jib trim where you think it should be. Put a mark on the sheet or on the spreader where the leach position sits.

Then close-hauled upwind, get yourself going well. Have the crew sheet in 1 inch and see what happens. Then sheet in a second inch. Keep repeating until the boat stalls out.

Go back to your previously marked staring point. Get going. Now ease the sheet 1". if you follow that do you get better VMG? Ease another inch. Repeat until you are clearly losing VMG by footing.

Now you should have a clue as to where your "groove" is, Where "fast-forward" mode is, and where "pinch mode" is. This now lets you change gears as needed to launch off the line, foot for the new breeze, or pinch to stay in a narrow lane.

But you ALWAYS have to go fast first before you can point

 

[Matt D]

Jib cleat on the foredeck... You're not sailing "Uncontrolable Urge", are you?

Though I normally crew on the I14s, I have driven on occasion, and drive on the 5o5. Here's my take, some much better sailers than I may have better advice; I am by no means a rockstar.

Most of what others have posted here seems spot on. You need speed to point, sometimes it means cracking off 5 degrees for five seconds to get going then coming back up to the old heading or even higher with speed.

I would avoid pre-bending the mast in the conditions you're sailing in; you're looking for power. If your sails are so shot that you need to pre-bend to remove excess depth, than new sails are a must.

Since you're probably not sailing on a big lake, keep your foil on 100% upwind, move your weight back until the knuckle of the boat is submerged about 1"; 2cm.

Keep a fair amount of vang on to avoid having your main twist off and spill too much power. Minimize the amount of cunningham.

If you're sailing a B2, non self-tacking B3, you'll probably have to sheet the jib fairly hard in order to close the slot sufficiently, and have the jib leech match the main leech.

Keep a fair amount of lowers on so that the lowermast will be straight when the vang is pulled on. Frequently this will cause the mast to have minimal inversion when the main isn't up. This will of course vary depending on the sail&rig combo.

How long is your board & which design of boat and rig are you using? Newer boards are longer, seem to get raised a lot earlyer, where as with older board designs, you may want to have it all the way down.

Weed check. Even a few strands on your foils are a killer to both boatspeed, and thus pointing ability.

 

[Liquid]

Upwind angles on a 14... no idea. Tacking thru 90 degrees maybe?

I'm like you, crewed 14s for a while and now drive one. I also had issues with point... There are a couple of things we noticed, in addition to all the spot on advice above! Being new to driving and with a first time 14er crew, we tended to go out with too much of everything on! Too much cunno, vang, uppers, rig tension, jib sheet, etc because we were scared! It takes time to be comfortable with all that power! I also tended to foot off too much to build speed to feel powered while 2 wired. We corrected this by running everything a little more 'open' while getting more leach tension on the main via less rig tension, less uppers, little more vang. Jib sheeting plays a very big role in upwind speed and point! I don't sail with as much sheet on now.

Then there is the critical piece: Keep the bow in the water going upwind: Foil on, weight forward, dead flat and use the hull to help you point.

The spread between pinch mode and foot mode is rather narrow!

 

[BalticBandit]

I would avoid pre-bending the mast in the conditions you're sailing in; you're looking for power. If your sails are so shot that you need to pre-bend to remove excess depth, than new sails are a must.
Keep a fair amount of vang on to avoid having your main twist off and spill too much power. Minimize the amount of cunningham.

I'd start with no cunningham and almost no bend. Let the sail bag out. If drag is a problem then use the cunningham to get the draft out of the main, but bend opens the leech and reduces your ability to point.

Tacking angles depend on windspeed but in 10-12 it should be 90deg or less.

 

[knobblyoldjimbo]

You could try taking the main to a sailmaker.

I've done it on a couple of mains (my TY and beach cat). He did amazing things - in both cases just by adding some to the luff rope (which shrinks with age). My cat main now looks pretty good (for its 25 years!!). If you do this and then can pull the gooseneck down you'll get a lot more nice shape there. I've never had one recut but you might find that this pays dividends - over here they charge about A$80 per hour, my cat main cost me $88 (inc tax) so one hours work has made a big difference - on one light day from back to front of the fleet.

 

[BalticBandit]

You could try taking the main to a sailmaker.
I've done it on a couple of mains (my TY and beach cat). He did amazing things - in both cases just by adding some to the luff rope (which shrinks with age). My cat main now looks pretty good (for its 25 years!!). If you do this and then can pull the gooseneck down you'll get a lot more nice shape there. I've never had one recut but you might find that this pays dividends - over here they charge about A$80 per hour, my cat main cost me $88 (inc tax) so one hours work has made a big difference - on one light day from back to front of the fleet.

That's a really good point. if the luff rope shrinks, it essentially bunches the main at the mid-mast position, which has the effect of increasing the depth of the draft as well as pulling it forwards. And a little bit of time in the loft may seem like throwing good $$ after bad, but if you aren't going to spring for a new suit, then time in the loft is a cheap fix. And sailing with the wrong shapes will just get you into bad habits.

 

[will746]

i sail a 29er so similar i assume...when we're going upwind we go for height in the light stuff(under 10kts), 10-15 we go even higher, then anything over 15 is always choppy where i'm from so we crack off 5-10 degrees to power up over the waves

 

[russyh]

An i14 is nothing like a 29er. I sailed a morrison 12 for a few years and it was and awesome boat. WHat design 14 are you sailing? When you say jib cleats are on deck i presume it is a pre self tacker. although i thought most of the older 14's didnt have for decks!!!

 

[BalticBandit]

An i14 is nothing like a 29er. I sailed a morrison 12 for a few years and it was and awesome boat. WHat design 14 are you sailing? When you say jib cleats are on deck i presume it is a pre self tacker. although i thought most of the older 14's didnt have for decks!!!

I agree, 29ers and 49ers are quicker to accelerate and have very different upwind behaviour than 14s.

 

[russyh]

I agree, 29ers and 49ers are quicker to accelerate and have very different upwind behaviour than 14s.

I disagree Our 14 was much quicker accelerating then a 29er and most 49ers (once the 49er is up to speed it is faster upwind, but not down)! Obviously a 14 is going to be different upwind as it has a t-foil and is only 14ft long. But then you are talking about a 9er which is old hat technology wise now and what was at the time the latest hull and rig design 14. Might be a bit different with the new 49er rig.

 

[BalticBandit]

I disagree Our 14 was much quicker accelerating then a 29er and most 49ers (once the 49er is up to speed it is faster upwind, but not down)! Obviously a 14 is going to be different upwind as it has a t-foil and is only 14ft long. But then you are talking about a 9er which is old hat technology wise now and what was at the time the latest hull and rig design 14. Might be a bit different with the new 49er rig.

Hmm, what sort of wind conditions? In under 8 I'd agree 14s are quicker - they weigh less, and in over 15, the 49er is slower because of its high aspect kite, but sailing against Bundy and Bieker, I never found the 49er to be slower than the 14s downhill until it got bumpy and we had to start taking the foot off the gas.

Upwind sailing a B3, I found it "sticky" in that 10-12 range in ways the 49er never was. I didn't spend as much time in the 14 so maybe it was technique, but where I'd expect the 49er to "squirt" the 14 would just accelerate slowly. But again, I had probably 100x more hours in the 49er than in the 14. And only a quick sail in the 29er

 

[russyh]

A morrison 12 is a different beast to a B3 14. It is harder to sail but once you have got used to her she is faster. Upwind we struggled against a 9er but not in sheer acceleration. The extra water line length of the 9er makes it an awesome beast upwind. Downhill we where faster but not massively. Round a course a 9er is faster, and i cant wait to see the new rig (maybe even have a go) THat will make it a different beast altogether!

 

[i144ever]

Jib cleat on the foredeck... You're not sailing "Uncontrolable Urge", are you?

The Urge wasn't on the foredeck... it cleated when it was wraped around your foot.

 

[BalticBandit]

A morrison 12 is a different beast to a B3 14. It is harder to sail but once you have got used to her she is faster. Upwind we struggled against a 9er but not in sheer acceleration. The extra water line length of the 9er makes it an awesome beast upwind. Downhill we where faster but not massively. Round a course a 9er is faster, and i cant wait to see the new rig (maybe even have a go) THat will make it a different beast altogether!

I dunno that the new rig will make that big a diff. The issue on the 9er is that over 15kn and you are trying to depower and minimize drag - and keep from cartwheeling downhill in the bumps. If they opted to allow a smaller rig - THEN we'd be talking something. Rumor had it that in the early days Nicco had one with a smaller rig and cranked out something in the low 30s on it.

 

[Chiz]

All great stuff, thanks guys!!