Transat Jacques Vabre 2021

Of course i agree. I just think we can do both and that the people organising the competitions and classes could change their way of thinking and doing things. If that leads them to having new technical needs that can also help change industries that's good.

It's just that my opinion is that racing with the wind around the oceans should be wholly done with the elements of the sea. You can have a gas engine for safety sure. Just don't break the seal or you've just abandoned.

Still, doesn't prevent me from enjoying the racing.
There may be marketing and hospitality implications, I would be surprised if Sodebo doesn't have a hospitality plan in  Martinique for clients.

 

kass

Member
First weather routing test for the Ultimes class leader

Input:

  1. Position 1500 CET Rothschild
  2. GFS last run 0600 UTC with 3 hr timesteps 10 days ahead, and after that
  3. OpenCPN Climate plugin for average wind in november
  4. Waves; FNMOC-WW3 model Global 7 days ahead with 1 x 1 degree resolution and after that Climate plugin
  5. Maxi multihull 2013 polar file from www.seapilot.com
  6. Waypoint is Ilha da Trindade and then Matinique
  7. Calculation with 3 hr timesteps

Output: 

  1. 6 days to Ilha da Trindade and 6 days to finish. ETA 24/11/21 in the evening.
  2. But average boat speeds are too low I think; around 19-21 kts. Currently they are doing above 30 kts. There is of course the ITCZ-crossing (twice) which will lower the average boat speed. But is someone can provide a quicker polar, please let me know.
  3. Also, the routing predicts that Frank and Charles should be heading almost due west. They are not, so that could be the GFS forecast, but more probably the inaccurate polars.
  4. But the ETA data of the 24th at the finish is not that far off though; "They are estimated to finish after 16 to 17 days" according to the TJV which is at Nov 23rd or Nov 24th.

Pic 1 has the overview.

Pic 2 decluttered

View attachment 473383

View attachment 473384
Nice work. Three of the four Ultims in the pack (i.e. excluding Sodebo) have gybed over now. In addition to being the best route, weather wise, it will help them avoid some obstacles, namely the ARC+ fleet. See screenshot attached. I imagine seeing some TJV boats blow through might be the highlight of a rally like that...

p.s. Can you add the exclusion zone along the northern coast of South America to your routing? They aren't allowed to go that close to the NE corner of Brazil, so that leg form Trindade will be slightly higher on the wind. Are you including currents as well? There's up to 2 kts in their favour in places, although perhaps that's closer in than they're allowed.

426298164_Screenshot2021-11-12at18_25_16.png

 

Lakrass

Member
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Of course i agree. I just think we can do both and that the people organising the competitions and classes could change their way of thinking and doing things. If that leads them to having new technical needs that can also help change industries that's good.

It's just that my opinion is that racing with the wind around the oceans should be wholly done with the elements of the sea. You can have a gas engine for safety sure. Just don't break the seal or you've just abandoned.

Still, doesn't prevent me from enjoying the racing
Bit split on this but don't mind for the Ultimes as a special class, don't want it for Multi 50, Imoca and Class 40. Why 2 set of rules, it's already basically the case with weather routing and Ultimes are such expensive campaigns that are made possible thanks to the exposure during races, if it allows them to continue, post content and keep one or two extra boats in the fleet, so be it.

For the green side, I don't fool myself thinking such campaigns are very green (except for Sodebo but that's only appearances), but hopefully they are laboratories to develop the industry and have an impact elsewhere on a bigger scale.

 

Laurent

Super Anarchist
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Audio summary of the incident and its resolution by Thomas Rouxel, co-skipper of Sodebo.



Thomas Rouxel:

"Quick summary of what happened. About 24 hours ago, we were sailing in a very unstable wind, on port tack, we had Genak.J0 and full main, Thomas (Coville) was in the bunk, I was returning to the steering wheel and we hit very violently something. We do not know what it was. It was so violent that I flew through the cockpit, I hit a winch handle, the nav station computer screen, and other stuff with the other arm... I thought first that we hit another boat... Coming out of the boat, I was expecting to see the bow in pieces. So we checked the boat and saw that the starboard foil was damaged. So we launched a repair project. We did not know yet if it was just to last 3 days to a port where we could make more repairs, or to continue the race straight away. We worked on it for 12 or 13 hours straight. We were not able to do what we wanted to do, so we are now in Madeira, with the technical team who flew in and landed at half past midnight. They came aboard straight away and fixed up the boat in 2 hours. But the starboard foil is still broken so we won't be able to use it for the most part, but we can sail, we can get back into the race, so we just decided to do exactly that. We are leaving Funchal in Madeira, to get back to the waypoint where we suspended the race, and get back into it!

I do not do boxing, but I guess that a boxer, the day after a fight must be more or less like I feel. I have bruised on the right arm, on the left elbow, on the left hip, on the right foot... But nothing too serious, and it does not stop me from sailing. So very happy to get back at sea.

The competition aspect is going to be less exciting, for sure, but then we will be able to focus on the pleasure to be at sea. And learn more about how to sail this boat. And you never know what could happen...

So pedal to the metal, and the idea is to get to Martinique as fast as possible, just like our buddies."

 
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kass

Member
Yes the mast design issue I understand but still, this wasn’t southern ocean conditions. It was ARC rally conditions.
They said the mast fell over the bow, so my guess would be rigging fatigue. That boat has done a lot of miles by now, and is not the team's primary boat, so new rigging might not have been a priority.
Last I checked, there were no foiling boats in the ARC. They were doing >20 kts boat speed downwind. Most likely foiling, and then felt the boat suddenly nosedive and stop. Presumably the mast just kept going over the bow. Not hard to imagine. Why the boat suddenly plowed into the wave and/or dropped off the foils? Who can say? Everything is instrumented and logged on that boat (ATR started it, reportedly in response to Lewis Hamilton coming onboard and being shocked at the lack of load cells, and the 11th Hour have continued the practice on both boats), so there will be a forensic investigation...whether they share the results publicly is another matter.

I'd be very surprised if lack of preventative maintenance on the rigging had anything to do with it. Incidentally, Amory Ross (11th Hour media guy) told me that the mast currently on the new boat has already done two transatlantic passages on the old boat. I'm not sure if the mast that was just lost was older or newer than that one.

 

Fiji Bitter

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I'd be very surprised if lack of preventative maintenance on the rigging had anything to do with it. Incidentally, Amory Ross (11th Hour media guy) told me that the mast currently on the new boat has already done two transatlantic passages on the old boat. I'm not sure if the mast that was just lost was older or newer than that one.
Interesting detail, and I suppose he talked about mast and rigging.

And putting a new mast on the old boat would not make much sense, so we can assume it was their old mast. Bottom line is something broke, and most likely it was the rigging. If not fatique, then some damage sustained when stepping the mast or afterwards while sailing, must have been the reason.

In any case, mast gone! ;)

 
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Boink

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Yes the mast design issue I understand but still, this wasn’t southern ocean conditions. It was ARC rally conditions.
You have partly solved your own question.....

Southern Ocean wave patterns are of much greater amplitude but are in fact mostly longer and more predictable. 

This was the Coastal shelf off the NW corner of Spain where tidal and oceanic currents are mixing, wind is accelerated greatly and depth is shallowing rapidly.The video mentioned that they were only a few miles off the coast. They had called for a reef - so breeze was a factor.

It's not a stretch to see how a freak set of waves could develop under these conditions.

 

Roleur

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Nice little one-on-one drag race between, Charal and APIVIA.
With Sam gaining on both of them!

Someone please get Sam a decent boat.  Here she is battling it out at the pointy end of a 22 boat fleet in a 100 year old boat against the absolute latest and greatest.  That is some serious talent.  Definitely not luck either as she has ebbed and flowed compared to the others, but currently the 2nd fastest of the leading 5 and right behind Apivia who was 35+nm ahead yesterday.  

 

Foiling Optimist

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With Sam gaining on both of them!

Someone please get Sam a decent boat.  Here she is battling it out at the pointy end of a 22 boat fleet in a 100 year old boat against the absolute latest and greatest.  That is some serious talent.  Definitely not luck either as she has ebbed and flowed compared to the others, but currently the 2nd fastest of the leading 5 and right behind Apivia who was 35+nm ahead yesterday.  
Agreed, It strikes me she is extremely good at routing, so gets to the front by patience and cleverness, but then loses out in raw speed when in the same weather system as the top three boats. You love to see her up there though. 

 

Fiji Bitter

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Someone please get Sam a decent boat. 
She is going to build, or is already building a new one, from an existing mould, I believe.

And btw, that 100 year old boat has been upgraded with some of the latest foils.

Agreed, It strikes me she is extremely good at routing,
She is, but in this race Nicolas Lunven might do the heavy lifting (and Sam the sail hanling) I believe, again...

 
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LeoV

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In Figaro cross atlantic races Sam showed the skills of a good weather router. At that time receiving weather faxes was da bomb. How things change...

Imoca always comes good with close racing.

 

moody frog

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In Figaro cross atlantic races Sam showed the skills of a good weather router. At that time receiving weather faxes was da bomb. How things change...

Imoca always comes good with close racing.
And Sam did some shore weather routing too (with JL Nelias), memory is weak but fortunately Google says it was for Coville. Which fits with her having one of the neatest brains on the circuit.

 

staysail

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You have partly solved your own question.....

Southern Ocean wave patterns are of much greater amplitude but are in fact mostly longer and more predictable. 

This was the Coastal shelf off the NW corner of Spain where tidal and oceanic currents are mixing, wind is accelerated greatly and depth is shallowing rapidly.The video mentioned that they were only a few miles off the coast. They had called for a reef - so breeze was a factor.

It's not a stretch to see how a freak set of waves could develop under these conditions.
The one design mast introduced to the class to "reduce the dismasting risks" seen in races years ago, is now a performance limiting factor. 2 masts down in a single race in which there has been no storm yet. We all know the long Imoca races are risky. We worry about keels, rudders, foils etc. and UFO collisions, and now we know the fast boats have to worry about a mast which can fall down when they are sailing nicely in moderate weather if the boat happens across an unfortunate shaped wave. The mast should never have been made one design. It is causing increased risk not reduced risk.

 

JonRowe

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The one design mast introduced to the class to "reduce the dismasting risks" seen in races years ago, is now a performance limiting factor. 2 masts down in a single race in which there has been no storm yet. We all know the long Imoca races are risky. We worry about keels, rudders, foils etc. and UFO collisions, and now we know the fast boats have to worry about a mast which can fall down when they are sailing nicely in moderate weather if the boat happens across an unfortunate shaped wave. The mast should never have been made one design. It is causing increased risk not reduced risk.
Thats one way of spinning it... The other is that foils are causing increased risk by putting the boats under more load, which was acknowledged by the class and is why the next rule is limiting the foils to reduce that risk.

 

JL92S

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With Sam gaining on both of them!

Someone please get Sam a decent boat.  Here she is battling it out at the pointy end of a 22 boat fleet in a 100 year old boat against the absolute latest and greatest.  That is some serious talent.  Definitely not luck either as she has ebbed and flowed compared to the others, but currently the 2nd fastest of the leading 5 and right behind Apivia who was 35+nm ahead yesterday.  
She is getting a Manuard designed sistership to Bureau Valle built by Black Pepper

 

staysail

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Thats one way of spinning it... The other is that foils are causing increased risk by putting the boats under more load, which was acknowledged by the class and is why the next rule is limiting the foils to reduce that risk.
You are free to design the structure and mechanical strength of your foil so no one to blame but yourself if it breaks. Not free to design a stronger mast? How can that make any sense at all in an "open" class?

 

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