Transpac 2019

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brisbane
Incorrect... The family is doing the delivery.. They are not cruising.

My point is value for buck.... 15-25 million for Comanche is not in my story.... Rio 100 is not great value imo. A one trick pony and when it's time to sell i'm not sure there will be buyers... but to each their own...

Paradox performs more tricks.. I see the value
I agree, i reckon had Paradox got out of the blocks and through the light weather at the start as quick as Comanche did she may have been a lot closer, even in front of the claimed "worlds fastest" monohull, which was well and truely beaten, again.... by all 3, 70 foot tris and all cost under 2 million and are 12 years old! Now there's bang for buck IMHO

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
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IMHO, access to YB tracking data, and satellite AIS data should be prohibited: 1) because it's counter to the spirit of the sport and receipt of outside assistance.  Sail your own race. and 2) because the RC has NO control over the YB trackers, which do fail occasionally (and too conveniently for some crews), access to the same quality YB data is not and cannot be guaranteed to be equal amongst competitors.
Essex your suggestion actually takes offshore sailing back to the late 19th century and the invention of radio.

Volvo Race had the mix right with the RO controlling internet access and shared tracker position updates for competitors replicated (or close to) traditional radio scheds. Electronics failure is part and parcel with the sport, so they have to suck that up.

 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
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Now there's bang for buck IMHO
Only trouble is it only "bang for buck" when restricted to race tracks favouring multi's. There is a offshore racing world outside those tracks incl Transpac, noting this started life as a mono race with multi's allowed later on down the track.

 
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PIL66 - XL2

Super Anarchist
2,701
751
Stralya
Only trouble is it only "bang for buck" when restricted to race tracks favouring multi's. There is a offshore racing world outside those tracks incl Transpac, noting this started life as a mono race with multi's allowed later on down the track.
I'd take Parodox on any race track 

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
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I'd take Parodox on any race track 
But Pil you're a biased multi owner and not allowed to take a multi like Parodox on your own turfs best race track. Until that happens there is no "bang for buck" happening :) It's like being married to a super model but you can't shag her, only put her on your arm for display purposes only.

 
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Incorrect... The family is doing the delivery.. They are not cruising.

My point is value for buck.... 15-25 million for Comanche is not in my story.... Rio 100 is not great value imo. A one trick pony and when it's time to sell i'm not sure there will be buyers... but to each their own...

Paradox performs more tricks.. I see the value
Not the way it was described to me, by one of their regulars sad to have had to turn the trip down.

But who am I to argue.

 

sinker

Member
62
3
It was interesting that one of the top boats had their tracker die one ping after going live at the 200 miles mark. Just saying that was awfully good timing of the yb tracker to die. 
Reading their race recap in Suck-butt it gives the impression they knew where other boats were that were a long (out of AIS distance) way from them. 

 

BobJ

Super Anarchist
1,212
161
Right.  How did they know where their competition was?  Was this based solely on the required (and public) check-ins?  How often are those?

"We were struggling to cover both the Rogers 46 Bretwalda 3, which was focused on sailing as fast as possible to Oahu, and the J/125 Velvet Hammer, who was playing a tactical game."







"The Hammer was heading for the right corner to establish leverage on us, while we sailed more of a rhumb line to keep our VMG high. Squalls were rolling across the race course creating challenging wind angles and large wind holes.  We struggled very early Saturday morning (July 20) and watched the separation increase with Bretwalda, and our advantage decrease with Velvet Hammer. Hamachi had been atop the ORR overall standings since Wednesday morning (July 17), but all of us felt that lead slipping away."







"Around 3am a series of squalls came through that increased pressure and improved wind angles which allowed us to start making gains on the competition. Then just after sunrise, we gybed right on a favorable shift to cover Velvet Hammer and rode that for many hours."

 

IMR

Anarchist
577
109
SF Bay Area
Right.  How did they know where their competition was?  Was this based solely on the required (and public) check-ins?  How often are those?

"We were struggling to cover both the Rogers 46 Bretwalda 3, which was focused on sailing as fast as possible to Oahu, and the J/125 Velvet Hammer, who was playing a tactical game."







"The Hammer was heading for the right corner to establish leverage on us, while we sailed more of a rhumb line to keep our VMG high. Squalls were rolling across the race course creating challenging wind angles and large wind holes.  We struggled very early Saturday morning (July 20) and watched the separation increase with Bretwalda, and our advantage decrease with Velvet Hammer. Hamachi had been atop the ORR overall standings since Wednesday morning (July 17), but all of us felt that lead slipping away."







"Around 3am a series of squalls came through that increased pressure and improved wind angles which allowed us to start making gains on the competition. Then just after sunrise, we gybed right on a favorable shift to cover Velvet Hammer and rode that for many hours."
The tracker is 4 hours delayed until a boat reaches 200 miles out. Then it goes live (15 minute delay). That lead boats tracker went live once at 12:15 and then the battery died and they emailed the Rc their location every 4 hours. The rc passed along their location once in the last 200 miles. So they knew where everyone was, but no one knew their location. 

I would like to see the tracker stay at a 4 hour delay the whole race.  

 
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Raz'r

Super Anarchist
61,127
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De Nile
Incorrect... The family is doing the delivery.. They are not cruising.

My point is value for buck.... 15-25 million for Comanche is not in my story.... Rio 100 is not great value imo. A one trick pony and when it's time to sell i'm not sure there will be buyers... but to each their own...

Paradox performs more tricks.. I see the value
This is rarefied air territory. A 63'er with less interior space than my old 43' IMS raceboat, or a 100'er with no headroom.

If I had either, I'm cruising my Brenta and letting my crew take the boat from place to place!

 

BobJ

Super Anarchist
1,212
161
I would like to see the tracker stay at a 4 hour delay the whole race.  
Yes, something needs to change.  In any other form of competition, a significant advantage like this would invalidate the results.

 

solosailor

Super Anarchist
3,888
719
San Francisco Bay
I guess I see it difference from say motorsport racing where you are going around in circles, counting laps, all competitors are in the same track conditions, everyone is basically in sight of one another the whole race.   In ocean racing the track and conditions are different across the course and navigating, playing conditions, etc. is a large part of the challenge.....   or should I say used to be since you can now look up real time or with a short delay everyone across the course.    In the not so distant past you got a fleet report once, twice a day and see if your gamble decision paid off, etc.   Now if someone jibes away you know about it.      I still say NO tracker for boats on the course, just a twice a day RC generated fleet report.   Race your own race.

 

Trickypig

Super Anarchist
4,399
124
Australia
Gamble, Shock 40 about to finish. Last boat home. 

No real mention of Dark Star Hobie 33 and Sweet Okele modified 70s IOR Farr 36 battle here. They finished just over an hour apart ( Dark Star leading SO in) then corrected to less than 7 minutes apart with Sweet Okele taking the handicap honours in div 8. 

 

Essex

Super Anarchist
1,747
73
New Jersey
Essex your suggestion actually takes offshore sailing back to the late 19th century and the invention of radio.

Volvo Race had the mix right with the RO controlling internet access and shared tracker position updates for competitors replicated (or close to) traditional radio scheds. Electronics failure is part and parcel with the sport, so they have to suck that up.
Quotes getting mixed up here, that wasn't me said that. I favor instant tracking for all.

 

BobJ

Super Anarchist
1,212
161
I still say NO tracker for boats on the course, just a twice a day RC generated fleet report.   Race your own race.
We've been dragged down the flowery path of requiring trackers for entertainment and (arguably) race promotion, with no regard to their effect on the quality of the racing.

And no, the Coast Guard doesn't require them.

 

Tom O'Keefe

Super Anarchist
Saturday's start was light.  It took 36 hours to to get to San Nicholas island. From Monday night to Tuesday night we gradually went from a J0 with a blast reacher and a genoa staysail and single reefed main to a 3A with a full main in 17 to 24 knots TWS beam reaching. It was Monday afternoon when I was going forward just off the helm that the boat lurched and I smacked my ribs on my left side on a foot cleat. Then later that evening reaching at 13 knots we hit a UFO and came to an abrupt stop. 

We did a safety check and proceeded on. Once passed the ridge we actually took a jibe south. We saw consistent 17 to 24 knots in running conditions through Saturday morning and got a light afternoon. Stepping south kept us in more wind than our competitors to the north. 

It would get real dark after sunset until the moon would rise. Water across the deck regularly with the occasional full plug.

It was a blast !

Tom

 

PIL66 - XL2

Super Anarchist
2,701
751
Stralya
But Pil you're a biased multi owner and not allowed to take a multi like Parodox on your own turfs best race track. Until that happens there is no "bang for buck" happening :) It's like being married to a super model but you can't shag her, only put her on your arm for display purposes only.
Correct on all counts Jack (as usual).... Still her on my arm works... I can always knock the top off to relieve tension...... as usual...

With a boat like Parodox and a "friend" super model.... she will have friends for me...

Not the way it was described to me, by one of their regulars sad to have had to turn the trip down.

But who am I to argue.
Not sure who your regular is (JH..?) but like you i was offered the trip by Jim himself and his carrot was the fact I would only have to take 2 weeks max off work based on the previous time the boat did it and the guarantee we would straight line it. The fact they haven't left means maybe the family won't go and the boys will have more time. 

Funny we could have ended up spending 2 weeks holiday together Tubby..... Maybe we both need to unchain ourselves from work and live a little more .. next time..

This is rarefied air territory. A 63'er with less interior space than my old 43' IMS raceboat, or a 100'er with no headroom.

If I had either, I'm cruising my Brenta and letting my crew take the boat from place to place!
You own a Brenta ...? Jim has a 42 and there is virtually no room downstairs on that... nice fun harbour boat though....

 
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