The amount of flotsam, jetsam, and solid pollutants floating in the oceans these days seem to have shifted the odds of hitting something during a passage from unlikely to highly likely. These stories are becoming common place. My only experience with passages were a few I did back in the 80s. I don't recall seeing or hitting anything on those. Now....it seems to have become something to expect.
Trimaran “Buddy” abandoned north of Bermuda
- Thread starter smj
- Start date
AClass USA 230
Anarchist
I'd agree that for the bluewater sailor or even coastal cruiser that the risk in today's world is higher of a collision with a floating object but I don't think we've reached a point where it is "highly likely". There are some excellent bluewater podcasts that discuss this in more detail with people doing bluewater passage sailing. While they acknowledge the same, it seems they all agree the risk is still relatively low for such an incident. You can also substantially reduce your risk if you can plan your routing to avoid the shipping lanes.
I'm not an experienced offshore sailor but I recently did a two day crossing of the Gulf of Mexico from Tampa Bay to Gulfport, MS (425 nautical miles across open water) and we did not see any floating debris at all during the entire trip.
In the case of Buddy, it does appear to have been pretty shitty "bad luck".
Kenny Dumas
Non Binary About Anything
There’s no board in the starboard ama but something stuck a dagger in the port ama…
2flit
Member
Just some thoughts here:'
We may never know. But what WESS said is fairly spot on. I too am concerned because we sail our trimaran thousands of miles offshore.
Your account of a previous ama collision that filled the center section... same ama?
During that collision she continued sailing and when our ama filled we experienced a similar situation with respect to being able to continue on.
From her interior pictures... it appears that Buddy was all wood core in main hull, but is it known how amas were constructed?
Was the foam floatation>> 'poured in place or loose foam blocks...what type of 'foam'... all this matters greatly. From my limited experience of owning one all-wood and one partially cedar cored trimaran>>> Sealed compartments and wood construction are not kind to each other with a 20 year old hull.
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Why was Buddy listing at 45 degrees to port?
It seems to me that, once the port ama lost buoyancy by being filled with water, it would sit just below the surface. Seems like there would need to be another force to cause it to keep submerging.
Also, it seems to me like the port ama would act as a sea anchor, so the rest of the boat would be downwind of it, which would help the situation--the wind on the mast would help right the boat.
Note that I'm well-trained in the liberal arts (not anything useful in these sorts of discussions), so I could be entirely full of it here. I just saw this idea raised on the F-boat listserv and I didn't see it discussed here so I thought I'd let you guys tell me how dumb I am.
It seems to me that, once the port ama lost buoyancy by being filled with water, it would sit just below the surface. Seems like there would need to be another force to cause it to keep submerging.
Also, it seems to me like the port ama would act as a sea anchor, so the rest of the boat would be downwind of it, which would help the situation--the wind on the mast would help right the boat.
Note that I'm well-trained in the liberal arts (not anything useful in these sorts of discussions), so I could be entirely full of it here. I just saw this idea raised on the F-boat listserv and I didn't see it discussed here so I thought I'd let you guys tell me how dumb I am.
Max Rockatansky
DILLIGAF?
- 4,030
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@slug zitski
go sit small and STFU. Ryan is not only intelligent, he’s experienced.
You, Zitski, are just an Internet troll with a propensity for Googling. Go away.
go sit small and STFU. Ryan is not only intelligent, he’s experienced.
You, Zitski, are just an Internet troll with a propensity for Googling. Go away.
Gravity acting on the mast would be plenty of force to push the damaged side under, assuming most of that flotation failed for some reason.
Max Rockatansky
DILLIGAF?
- 4,030
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Too bad you missed Ryan, who this morning left BKH on a delivery of a Hunter to NOLASad to see.
Detour to Bermuda for rescue >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News
The plan for Willie, Geoff, Chris, and Tim was to deliver the J/133 Vamoose to Antigua from Newport, RI. At least that was the plan until help was needed…www.sailingscuttlebutt.com
- Thread starter
- #51
Would’ve been nice to meet him.
solosailor
Super Anarchist
Better to have multiple smaller air bags I would think.
Talchotali
Capt. Marvel's Wise Friend
Fill with inflatable day shapes?
Towing
Not under command
At anchor
Aground
Fishing
Constrained by draft
Unable to maneuver
CapDave
Anarchist
Sailing from Grenada to Sint Maarten last month at 12 knots with the port dagger down we hit something at the proverbial 2.30am, three loud bangs. It didn't slow the boat at all, and we had no water ingress. Dagger came up and down ok, rudders worked, saildrives worked, no new vibrations.
We went straight into the lagoon in SXM and weren't brave enough to go in and look at it. Came out a few days ago and looked, yikes! Port keel shows impact at bottom of leading edge, with about a 6" crack on the inboard face, laminates cleanly broken. Starboard keel has a big divot halfway down the leading edge, about two hands to cover it, maybe 3" deep with full laminate destruction and foam core showing. So the keels did their job and protected the functional stuff. There is no evidence of motion, they're still firmly stuck to the hulls. Being non-structural, looks like an easy repair.
Glad we don't have a whale-bottom boat, that would have been a saildrive and maybe rudder too on starboard.
slug zitski
Super Anarchist
Ocean sunfish , whales, ship junk, logs …many things to hit
one year i tangled with a floating 50 meter long , polypropylene ships hawser ..with barnacles that monster was a foot in diameter
check out the floating pig…. Well offshore
On the plus side, as you alluded to, it could have been much worse.
The combination of a performance boat, waterline length, but then letting go of a little bit of of the 'ultmate (maybe theoretical in a cruising context?) performance' by having fixed keels seems like a worthwhile trade off for a long distance live aboard cruising cat.
At some point, with a big enough performance orientated boat, it already becomes fast enough for cruising anyway.
Our daggerboard damage & repair sequence. Barely an inconvenience
Jigsaw
Glue in some corecell and let cure
Shape foam and sand surrounding area. Make the foam leading edge a bit deeper to allow for glass builduip
Not shown - Glass a few layers of biax over the repair, fairing compound, antifoul.
A few hours work over 3 days. The green stuff is Jotun's equivalent to Awlfair. Lovely stuff as well.
Jigsaw
Glue in some corecell and let cure
Shape foam and sand surrounding area. Make the foam leading edge a bit deeper to allow for glass builduip
Not shown - Glass a few layers of biax over the repair, fairing compound, antifoul.
A few hours work over 3 days. The green stuff is Jotun's equivalent to Awlfair. Lovely stuff as well.
D Wayne G
Member
I did my daggerboard twice last summer. Thing is, though………the stuff I hit wasn’t floating.
harryproa
Anarchist
- 942
- 182
Another pov from Richard Spindler:
"Profligate slammed to an abrupt halt from about five knots when the starboard daggerboard crunched into one of the big rocks that are scattered around the otherwise sand bottom.
While Profligate came to a complete stop, the 11 crewmembers didn't. Some were tossed into bulkheads or knocked off their feet.
But Dona, who had been leaning on the seagull striker, suffered the most. When Profligate stopped, she kept right on going. Right off the front of the boat.
When Dona was in the water, she was surrounded by bits of foam and fiberglass, the source of which could only be the bottom of Profligate's starboard daggerboard, which is now firmly imbedded into the crash box. It's likely going to need a haul-out to get that daggerboard out, although we'll try other methods."
The forces involved go up as the square of the speed, so 20 knots(4 x the 5 knots in the report) results in 16x the force.
Daggerboards (and rudders, and auxillary drive systems) that can be impacted by fixed or floating solid objects have no place on a high speed cruising multi.
"Profligate slammed to an abrupt halt from about five knots when the starboard daggerboard crunched into one of the big rocks that are scattered around the otherwise sand bottom.
While Profligate came to a complete stop, the 11 crewmembers didn't. Some were tossed into bulkheads or knocked off their feet.
But Dona, who had been leaning on the seagull striker, suffered the most. When Profligate stopped, she kept right on going. Right off the front of the boat.
When Dona was in the water, she was surrounded by bits of foam and fiberglass, the source of which could only be the bottom of Profligate's starboard daggerboard, which is now firmly imbedded into the crash box. It's likely going to need a haul-out to get that daggerboard out, although we'll try other methods."
The forces involved go up as the square of the speed, so 20 knots(4 x the 5 knots in the report) results in 16x the force.
Daggerboards (and rudders, and auxillary drive systems) that can be impacted by fixed or floating solid objects have no place on a high speed cruising multi.
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