truth to power?

Cal20sailor

Super Anarchist
12,396
3,108
Detroit
I hate this.  Unless they lied on their entrance documentation, they sailed by the rules.  The Ed, when faced with his only competition, lost to Snapper.  The Ed sees the hits/income going down and is being desperate.  The Beavers sailed the course and I very much doubt extra movement of their keel was not part of it.  Again, someone said something stupid after 6 days of no sleep, go figure.  

 

timmytwinstay

Member
99
22
[SIZE=12pt]The rules were clear.  [/SIZE]The winners read them and found a loophole, intentional or otherwise.  Good for them.  A hydrogen fuel cell is not powered by a “fossil fuel”.  It is powered by a “solar” fuel.

[SIZE=12pt]"● Every team must have a vessel without a motor. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]No motors onboard,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]at all, even if they’re not hooked up, disabled, etc. This includes motors[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]and engines of any fuel type—and that includes fossil-fuel-powered[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]generators. Human and wind power only for propulsion. Solar, wind, and[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]human power are okay for charging things—and no, not for charging a[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]battery that powers propulsion of any kind. Bilge pumps are okay, unless[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]it’s really big and pointed aft (see Rule 8)."[/SIZE]

 

sinker

Member
62
3
[SIZE=12pt]The rules were clear.  [/SIZE]The winners read them and found a loophole, intentional or otherwise.  Good for them.  A hydrogen fuel cell is not powered by a “fossil fuel”.  It is powered by a “solar” fuel.

[SIZE=12pt]"● Every team must have a vessel without a motor. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]No motors onboard,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]at all, even if they’re not hooked up, disabled, etc. This includes motors[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]and engines of any fuel type—and that includes fossil-fuel-powered[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]generators. Human and wind power only for propulsion. Solar, wind, and[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]human power are okay for charging things—and no, not for charging a[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]battery that powers propulsion of any kind. Bilge pumps are okay, unless[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]it’s really big and pointed aft (see Rule 8)."[/SIZE]
Except the Beave used a methanol fuel cell, an Efoy one

 

SailingTips.Ca

Feigns Knowledge
771
322
Victoria, BC
The Angry Beavers won not because of their canting keel, but because they have a great crew and a great boat, and by far the best team name for sailing fast in log-infested waters - I bet the logs parted before them when they heard a fast Angry Beaver was on its way.

Team Pear Shaped Racing on the other hand, well they had a great crew and a great boat, but I think they simply picked the wrong team name - I mean if I were a log I certainly know who I would choose to attack.

 

timmytwinstay

Member
99
22
Except the Beave used a methanol fuel cell, an Efoy one
You have a point, however; Methane can come from fossil and non-fossil sources.  Fossil sources include all sorts if decaying plant matter, which slowly thermally decompose at high temperatures.  Non-fossil sources include carbon and hydrogen from the mantle and from nuclear decay.

 

Norse Horse

Super Anarchist
4,987
546
The Rock
Team Shut up and drive may or may not have had a fuel cell as well.

" We tested the fuel cell which is really the back up of backups for us when we go offshore as it is really designed for a boat like Elise and not a boat like the Figaro with Skipper 2.0 capabilities. Still, it pumps out about 3 amps and can take care of maintaining charged the basic safety equipment such as a VHF and navigation lights - as well as sporadic use of a GPS for navigation purposes if need be. "

https://envoleeadventures.blogspot.com/search?q=fuel+cell

 
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timber

Super Anarchist
The spirit of the rules were violated IMHO. The rule says Motor of any type.  A hydraulic pump needs an electric motor. Or when did an electric motor stop being a motor.

"Motors and engines of ANY fuel type"    "[SIZE=12pt]a vessel without a motor"[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]"● Every team must have a vessel without a motor. [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]No motors onboard,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]at all, even if they’re not hooked up, disabled, etc. This includes motors[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]and engines of any fuel type—and that includes fossil-fuel-powered[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]generators. Human and wind power only for propulsion. Solar, wind, and[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]human power are okay for charging things—and no, not for charging a[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]battery that powers propulsion of any kind. Bilge pumps are okay, unless[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]it’s really big and pointed aft (see Rule 8)."[/SIZE]

 

Miffy

Super Anarchist
3,834
1,700
The spirit of the rules were violated IMHO. The rule says Motor of any type.  A hydraulic pump needs an electric motor. Or when did an electric motor stop being a motor.

"Motors and engines of ANY fuel type"    "[SIZE=12pt]a vessel without a motor"[/SIZE]
That is a peculiar way to read the rule, which is obviously focused on propulsion. 

If you're going to interpret "motor" as to mean literally every kind of motor, then a quartz watch movement would be banned under the rule. No fans for ventilation either. 

 

IStream

Super Anarchist
10,786
2,972
The spirit of the rules were violated IMHO. The rule says Motor of any type.  A hydraulic pump needs an electric motor. Or when did an electric motor stop being a motor.

"Motors and engines of ANY fuel type"    "[SIZE=12pt]a vessel without a motor"[/SIZE]
Bullshit. The spirit of the rules clearly means propulsion. A fuel cell that puts out barely enough to keep your batteries topped up and not connected to anything that can propel the boat, even indirectly, doesn't violate the spirit of the rules and more than a bilge pump outlet directed abaft of the beam violates the spirit. 

 

axolotl

Super Anarchist
1,656
183
San Diego
"Just so theres no misunderstanding, this is not a canting keel--its a canting ballast bulb.   A swing-ballast-bulb system reduces ballast requirements by 60 percent, and the boats displacement is only 7,000 pounds. The ballast bulb can be canted 55 degrees to either side, and with a push of a button you can fully tack the system in nine seconds." [2001]

I think it's possible to use it for propulsion in calm water.  The idea would be to get the boat rolling back and forth,  by  canting only 30°+- or so back and forth,  which would take 5+- or so seconds per cycle, and can be accentuated by rhythmic rudder(s) movements to accentuate the roll.  Main on centerline for an added flapping effect.  Experiment with timing, etc.,  for maximum effect.

The same thing can be done by having the crew run from rail to rail, hanging on to the shrouds and leaning out, along with rudder movements.  Get it timed right  and it's quite effective.  We had the motor crap out in a dead calm delivery (7,000 pound boat) and rolled our way to the harbor 5 miles away. Once we were dialled in we could could do a steady 3 knots, I kid you not!

But, I doubt rolling the boat by canting would be an efficient strategy with their setup.  Assuming they had the smallest EFOY fuel cell (3.3amp output) there's not enough juice to "cant-roll" for long without depleting the battery bank; check out the beefy ram setup below.  The shifting crew from rail to rail would probably be more effective.  And,  apparently they had pedal power, another possibly faster means of propulsion.

I bet they didn't cant-roll at all.  They seem to be up front folks, someone should just ask them.

schock.jpg

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,976
394
here
That is a peculiar way to read the rule, which is obviously focused on propulsion. 

If you're going to interpret "motor" as to mean literally every kind of motor, then a quartz watch movement would be banned under the rule. No fans for ventilation either. 
bilges pumps, macerators, refrigeration, water pressure, auto pilots...there's a ton of them

 
How silly to think you can move the keel back and forth for forward motion on battery power. It may work if you had a generator running at full blast, but on R2ak you cannot have a generator nor an engine. So if you were stupid enough to use your very limited battery power to run the keep for forward motion, you might be able to do that a dozen time and you would have run out of power until the next day when your solar panel gives you a few amps. And then you would not be able to move the keel when you actually needed it for stability.

That is a dead argument that sounds like someone is friend with the second place boat.

The boys on Angry Beaver had a fantastic race and this time the monohull beat a very well sailed Tri

 
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