Two sides of the DOJ debate surrounding the J6 investigation

Burning Man

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Here are two interesting counterpoints regarding whether the DOJ is dragging their feet on the J6 insurrection or doing the right thing by going slow.

Too Slow: https://www.lawfareblog.com/justice-department-meeting-moment

Just right: https://www.lawfareblog.com/defense-justice-department

Both are worth reading and both make some good points. But I continue to maintain that Garland is fucking the dog here with the clock running out. It seems even Biden is not happy.

As the Jan. 6 committee continues to build its case for Donald Trump’s criminal culpability regarding the Capitol insurrection, the Justice Department has come under increasing criticism for its failure to take public action against the former president. Rep. Adam Schiff, who sits on the Jan. 6 committee, commented on MSNBC that “it is unprecedented for Congress to be so far out ahead of the Justice Department in a complex investigation.” According to the New York Times, President Biden has said privately that he wishes Attorney General Merrick Garland would “act less like a ponderous judge and more like a prosecutor who is willing to take decisive action over the events of Jan. 6.” Following the most recent congressional hearing on Jan. 6, Andrew Weissmann, formerly a prosecutor working under Special Counsel Robert Mueller, warned that the Justice Department seems to be taking “the wrong approach to investigating the Jan. 6 insurrection” by zeroing in with a “myopic” focus on the specifics of the riot itself, rather than the broader scope of efforts to overturn the election.

The last bolded statement I think is the real key here. Yeah, sure - its great that all the whackadoodles who entered the Capitol that day are getting prosecuted and going to jail. But they are small fries, essentially inconsequential and most were nothing but Fox brainwashed MAGA tourists who followed the crowd inside. The bigger prize is those at the very top who sought to overturn the election even before election day and continuing up through J6. I think the actual riot itself was little more than a freak-show diversion / entertainment by and for the orangeshitstain while the real insurrection was going on in the halls of the WH and all the efforts to subvert our democracy.

So in that context, the FBI and the DOJ should have had one singular focus since literally that day a year and a half ago. And that was to investigate, prosecute and see that something like this could never happen again. Yeah, there's a good reason for the precedent why you don't lightly go after an ex-POTUS for political reasons...... because it would just set off a chain of pettiness with each new incoming Chief. But this was different. This was an attack on the Constitution itself, on our very democracy itself. TFG and his minions are EXACTLY the "domestic enemy" that public servants Oath of Office compels them to "protect and defend" against. AG Garland took that oath and frankly I think he's failed at it.

It almost sorta makes me wish we had a J. Edgar right now rather than Merrick. Almost. Just saying.
 

Burning Man

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Gay J was FBI, not DOJ. That’s like comparing fruits and vegetables.
Yeah, OK fair. Pick those nits if you must...... But my point is we need someone willing to do the hard things when necessary. Perfect is the enemy of the good.

As the first article points out, if nothing else - Garland and the DOJ have been almost silent on the topic of going after the top assholes for 18 months until the J6 Committee uncovered stuff the FBI didn't even know about. It finally shook them out of their stupor and complacency.
 

Stingray~

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Garland and the DOJ have been almost silent on the topic of going after the top assholes for 18 months until the J6 Committee uncovered stuff the FBI didn't even know about. It finally shook them out of their stupor and complacency.
The evidence of this being true is flimsy at best. Yes, they did recently request evidence from the J6C but that proves little about the DOJ's original timeline.

I believe Garland when he said this investigation is (something like) 'the biggest and most important investigation the history of the DOJ.'

Being 'almost silent' is how they operate, regardless how much we and the TV commentators might wish we could follow it day by day for fresh material to chew on and for TV ratings. There will be peripheral things developing, as the number of people and their lawyers spilling details becomes an avalanche. Be patient, Grasshopper!
 
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Burning Man

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The evidence of this being true is flimsy at best. Yes, they did recently request evidence from the J6C but that proves little about the DOJ's original timeline.

From the first article:
Yet serious questions remain about the extent to which the department has pursued the criminal culpability of Trump himself, especially in comparison to the work of the Jan. 6 committee. As we’ve written previously, it’s important to remember that the committee’s purpose is and should be different from the department’s: Congressional investigators, of course, can’t bring prosecutions, but they can and have focused on communicating the story of Jan. 6 to the public in as much detail as possible. What’s concerning is that the committee has apparently produced information unknown to the Justice Department, which is armed with vastly more investigative resources and greater power when it comes to compelling information. As Wittes notes, it’s not unheard-of for a congressional investigation to turn up material not yet uncovered by a parallel Justice Department probe. The specifics of what the committee has found that the department hasn’t, though, raise questions about how federal law enforcement has conceptualized its work and set its priorities.

I can't get through the paywall in the hyperlink above. But it seems that the J6 uncovered stuff the DOJ wasn't even looking into. Given that almost immediately after that testimony from Ms Hutchinson, the DOJ and Garland started speaking up - that tells me what was said there had enough credibility to jolt them awake from their nap and start taking this shit seriously.
 

Stingray~

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Given that almost immediately after that testimony from Ms Hutchinson, the DOJ and Garland started speaking up - that tells me what was said there had enough credibility to jolt them awake from their nap and start taking this shit seriously.
Sure, it's possible that an aspect of what Cass testified to is something they want to know more about.

If the DOJ already has video and wiretaps from inside the WH, an enormous amount of info subpoenaed from telecoms, hours of radio traffic, phone taps, God knows what else, would not surprise me in the least. A lot of us can replay what happened even in and around our own homes, from any date we choose. Can you imagine the systems in and around the WH? They would even know the exact composition of the Big Mac and could figure down to the microsecond what time it splattered the wall, the arm throw velocity, who was also in the room, the TV Channel, the exact replays performed, basically anything going on by all people at all times. Simple things like conversations included, like what those Cass testified to.

The list of those implicated in the insurrection conspiracy is going to blow peoples' minds, imho.
 
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βhyde

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Not fast enough: Glenn K (YT vid from today)
I have to agree with Glenn. There are a number of things that could be done immediately without compromising the larger investigation. DOJ should hand down a separate indictment for each crime, like witness tampering, as they occur. This "Big Case" mentality is a losing strategy IMO. Tie up TFG with as many indictments that you can throw at him. Something will stick. I hope Georgia fucks TFG over ASAP.
 

Olsonist

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Seriously Jeff, J Edgar Hoover is absolutely not who you want investigating the excesses of Shitstain. Hell, they both employed Roy Cohn. One of his first actions as Director was to fire all of the female agents and forbid any in the future. How gay is that? In retrospect, he was kind of an Arpiao. Shitstain even liked him.
 
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Mark_K

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Here are two interesting counterpoints regarding whether the DOJ is dragging their feet on the J6 insurrection or doing the right thing by going slow.

Too Slow: https://www.lawfareblog.com/justice-department-meeting-moment

Just right: https://www.lawfareblog.com/defense-justice-department

Both are worth reading and both make some good points. But I continue to maintain that Garland is fucking the dog here with the clock running out. It seems even Biden is not happy.



The last bolded statement I think is the real key here. Yeah, sure - its great that all the whackadoodles who entered the Capitol that day are getting prosecuted and going to jail. But they are small fries, essentially inconsequential and most were nothing but Fox brainwashed MAGA tourists who followed the crowd inside. The bigger prize is those at the very top who sought to overturn the election even before election day and continuing up through J6. I think the actual riot itself was little more than a freak-show diversion / entertainment by and for the orangeshitstain while the real insurrection was going on in the halls of the WH and all the efforts to subvert our democracy.

So in that context, the FBI and the DOJ should have had one singular focus since literally that day a year and a half ago. And that was to investigate, prosecute and see that something like this could never happen again. Yeah, there's a good reason for the precedent why you don't lightly go after an ex-POTUS for political reasons...... because it would just set off a chain of pettiness with each new incoming Chief. But this was different. This was an attack on the Constitution itself, on our very democracy itself. TFG and his minions are EXACTLY the "domestic enemy" that public servants Oath of Office compels them to "protect and defend" against. AG Garland took that oath and frankly I think he's failed at it.

It almost sorta makes me wish we had a J. Edgar right now rather than Merrick. Almost. Just saying.
I think most of the nut of it is here:

The department’s job is not to “report on the facts, circumstances, and causes” of complex mixtures of criminal, noncriminal, and First Amendment-protected activity. Garland never promised to do that. And if he ever did, it would be tantamount to announcing that he was targeting the former president for prosecution—investigating Trump, not some crime of which Trump was suspected. For an attorney general to do this would deal a devastating blow to the institutional integrity of the Justice Department.

And this point was not IMO adequately addressed by those other two. Seemed to me they tap danced right around it, and it's central to there main point: Why isn't Merrick telling us more?!?

Those calling for Merrick to DO SOMETHING are missing this. I suspect the rest of it is in the nature of DOJs size. 90% of LE and the court system is within the states. The federal court system is almost tiny when viewed to the size of the country it serves. They have suddenly had to deal with 850 prosecutions and thousands more investigated above and beyond they normally over-loaded dockets. I wouldn't expect an indictment of Trump to show up until at least some of that was cleared and the concurrent investigation by the Committee is at least nominally wrapped up, so the clock has only started to tick.

Furthermore Merrick is head of the DOJ which is a hell of a lot more than a batch of prosecutors. He must dot his Is and cross his Ts on this magilla. That means allowing the prosecutors under him to independently decide if they have a case worthy of a grand jury and indictment, not him, a political appointee, micromanaging them in the process.
 

Burning Man

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Sure, it's possible that an aspect of what Cass testified to is something they want to know more about.

If the DOJ already has video and wiretaps from inside the WH, an enormous amount of info subpoenaed from telecoms, hours of radio traffic, phone taps, God knows what else, would not surprise me in the least. A lot of us can replay what happened even in and around our own homes, from any date we choose. Can you imagine the systems in and around the WH? They would even know the exact composition of the Big Mac and could figure down to the microsecond what time it splattered the wall, the arm throw velocity, who was also in the room, the TV Channel, the exact replays performed, basically anything going on by all people at all times. Simple things like conversations included, like what those Cass testified to.

The list of those implicated in the insurrection conspiracy is going to blow peoples' minds, imho.
Sigh. The FBI is not going to have wiretaps and video from inside the WH. That just doesn't happen and no court in the land is going to authorize that. Sorry for your confusion...... but it would make a good netflix movie.
 

Burning Man

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Seriously Jeff, J Edgar Hoover is absolutely not who you want investigating the excesses of Shitstain. Hell, they both employed Roy Cohn. One of his first actions as Director was to fire all of the female agents and forbid any in the future. How gay is that? In retrospect, he was kind of an Arpiao. Shitstain even liked him.
Notice I said "almost". Sorry you missed the joke. Too bad you focused on that and didn't bother to read the article. Lighten up, Francis.
 

d'ranger

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This does worry me, I also know that Watergate took 2 years and was much smaller and specific in scope. Our system of justice as a whole takes too long - for example a guy I know (he worked for my company 2 years early 90s) was arrested and charged for a triple homicide in 1983. This was 2016 and he is still free on $150k bail. So if you want to do the crime and not the time check out Galveston County Texas. I could go on but just hope they are working hard and appreciate that whatever cards they hold aren't being shown.
 

Burning Man

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Clutch those pearls, as if only the DOJ can save us from ourselves re-electing Trump president.
I don't think for an instant the DOJ alone is going to save our democracy. However, I think their priorities are fucked. All the rioters are the focus right now. Why? They're not going anywhere. They were all on video saying stupid shit and doing stupid shit. Easy to roll them all up later. Maybe make a few high profile arrests of some of the ringleaders storming the capitol. But the real investigative resources should have been absolutely earmarked for the kingpins.

It will be ironic if the states end up convicting shitstain while the FBI and the DOJ play their fiddle while DC burns (figuratively).
 

Navig8tor

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Crazy me. I expected law enforcement, given probable cause, to arrest and change people committing crimes. What was I thinking?
Agree but if they have to take a little extra time to make the charges stick, well I'm good with that.
When you think about how many people they have got to make charges stick to at present and the fact they are only up to throwing rioters in jail, I suspect its gonna be a while before they get to the War room boys at the Willard.
Would I like to see the DOJ to put a little urgency in the word Mañana, abso fuckin lutly.
 

Burning Man

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Agree but if they have to take a little extra time to make the charges stick, well I'm good with that.
When you think about how many people they have got to make charges stick to at present and the fact they are only up to throwing rioters in jail, I suspect its gonna be a while before they get to the War room boys at the Willard.
Would I like to see the DOJ to put a little urgency in the word Mañana, abso fuckin lutly.
I personally think the clock has already run out. When the GOP win both houses in Nov - short of the world economy suddenly doing a 180 - this thing is over. They will do everything in their power to bury the J6 findings and likely throw multiple roadblocks at anything Biden and the DOJ can do to keep this going. And god forbid if orange fuckbag gets back into office - Nixon's Sat Night Massacre will be a 4th of July happy celebration compared to what's coming down the line.

I honestly hope I'm stupid wrong on this, but I don't think so. And that makes me both sad and scared.
 

Stingray~

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Sigh. The FBI is not going to have wiretaps and video from inside the WH. That just doesn't happen and no court in the land is going to authorize that. Sorry for your confusion...... but it would make a good netflix movie.
Disagree- am sure the WH is very-very wired up, for security reasons.
 




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