Ukraine and Only Ukraine. If it isn't about Ukraine then fuck off

mikewof

mikewof
45,639
1,209
Well if this happens without a nuke going off we definitely need to get in there grab the nukes this time. We fucked that up back in the 90's.

Grab the nukes from the Ukraine? Russia supposedly secured them all over a decade ago and they've been compliant with their NPT requirements to both open inspections of the decommission to the IAEA, and abide by the USA deal to buy the fissionable cores.

Or do you mean grab the nukes from Russia? That wouldn't work, and there is no need, Russia is compliant with the NPT.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
11,702
3,122
PNW
Color me skeptical that the thousand years Shia vs Sunni cultural animosities will be curable by short-term military force.

The best we can hope for is to ameliorate the living conditions to where those extremists are farther and farther on the fringes of what most people there think about.
 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,599
2,103
Back to the desert
Against the specter of global thermonuclear war, yes, Russia is our natural ally. We have worked together for about 75 years to successfully avoid it and work to get the NPT in place.

Even as Britain works to ramp up their nuclear efforts and Russia acts the regional scofflaw against the Ukraine, Russia has still honored their NPT obligations. Soon enough, the war in the Ukraine will be over, and we will move onto other things, and if we are lucky, we will continue to live in a world unmolested by a global thermonuclear war.
Will all the dead, wounded and orphaned Ukrainians "move onto other things"???
 

Chris in Santa Cruz CA

Super Anarchist
6,194
1,305
earths surface
Sure, just "get in there" and find 5,000 warheads in a vast landscape that makes North America look like an easy search site. Sure, just "get in there". After all, they can still blow up the world if we only find 95% of them.
We know where they are. We have had spies all over that country for decades and probably a bunch in the military. If the place falls apart like it did before who knows. They are squandering their vast resources and beautiful cities and history by being complete idiots and heading back to the last half of the previous century. At some point it makes more sense for them to become part of the EU than become a mostly white china. Complete lunacy on their part to allow Putin to get it to this point and idiocy on our part as well. They should rid themselves of Putin and trade their nukes for EU and NATO membership and sell gas and tourism and stop being assholes.
 

Ishmael

52,468
12,269
Fuctifino
We know where they are. We have had spies all over that country for decades and probably a bunch in the military. If the place falls apart like it did before who knows. They are squandering their vast resources and beautiful cities and history by being complete idiots and heading back to the last half of the previous century. At some point it makes more sense for them to become part of the EU than become a mostly white china. Complete lunacy on their part to allow Putin to get it to this point and idiocy on our part as well. They should rid themselves of Putin and trade their nukes for EU and NATO membership and sell gas and tourism and stop being assholes.

A wonderful sentiment. How does that mesh with "Russia is the leader of the world. Hail {Your Name Here} to trample the decadent West"
 

hobie1616

Super Anarchist
4,127
1,776
West Maui
It's kinda depressing that you, @Raz'r and @Ease the sheet. so happily shit all over the millions of blue collar logistics workers who keep our economy running.

You three likely circle-jerk to pictures of Jeff Bezos and happily fund union-busting techniques even as you enjoy the fruits of their labor.
There’s that S&R U language again. Did you take a class to polish your presentation skills?
 

LeoV

Super Anarchist
12,702
3,748
The Netherlands
Last weeks were killing for Russian officers, confirmed losses in total.
FcW0TMxXEAE3JxS
 

dylan winter

Super Anarchist
6,695
1,964
Putin's chef makes an astonishing offer to Russian Prisoners - sign up and fight for six months... if you survive you can get a full pardon

 

mikewof

mikewof
45,639
1,209
There’s that S&R U language again. Did you take a class to polish your presentation skills?

This is the way that some of us dirty working class people communicate when confronted by the soft-handed, pasty-pudged people like you who think they own us.

Tell your mom's housemaid what you wrote about delivery workers, you might get the same response.
 

hobie1616

Super Anarchist
4,127
1,776
West Maui
This is the way that some of us dirty working class people communicate when confronted by the soft-handed, pasty-pudged people like you who think they own us.

Tell your mom's housemaid what you wrote about delivery workers, you might get the same response.
So you took How To Influence People Through Insulting Diatribes 102 too? How did you find the time with all of your fizzisist studies?
 

mikewof

mikewof
45,639
1,209
So you took How To Influence People Through Insulting Diatribes 102 too? How did you find the time with all of your fizzisist studies?
It's remarkable how much us dirty-handed, foul-mouthed, sweaty people can get done in a day. You wouldn't understand any of that.
 

Expatriated

Anarchist
589
109
Against the specter of global thermonuclear war, yes, Russia is our natural ally. We have worked together for about 75 years to successfully avoid it and work to get the NPT in place.

Even as Britain works to ramp up their nuclear efforts and Russia acts the regional scofflaw against the Ukraine, Russia has still honored their NPT obligations. Soon enough, the war in the Ukraine will be over, and we will move onto other things, and if we are lucky, we will continue to live in a world unmolested by a global thermonuclear war.
Mikey, I think your love of a Russian physics text book has give you a substantial cognitive disfunction.

The UK are reversing the unilateral warhead cuts made some years ago and hopefully updating their arsenal with some lower yield air delivered warheads. The total number of warheads after the increase will be about the same as France currently have. Currently the only nuclear capability the UK have deployed is to launch a Trident missile. The warhead yield is variable as are the number of warheads but no one would know either of these facts until detonation and so are likely to assume a full missile bus with full yield warheads. As the Russian (and other) threats have increased I see having a potential for flexible response as essential.

You need to read the joint USA, UK and French statement here https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/f...e-the-united-kingdom-and-the-united-states-of about the NPT.
 

mikewof

mikewof
45,639
1,209

mikewof

mikewof
45,639
1,209
We know where they are. We have had spies all over that country for decades and probably a bunch in the military. If the place falls apart like it did before who knows. They are squandering their vast resources and beautiful cities and history by being complete idiots and heading back to the last half of the previous century. At some point it makes more sense for them to become part of the EU than become a mostly white china. Complete lunacy on their part to allow Putin to get it to this point and idiocy on our part as well. They should rid themselves of Putin and trade their nukes for EU and NATO membership and sell gas and tourism and stop being assholes.

Yes, you're right, they should just settle into the EU and join NATO, which is what they floated before fucking Putin ran roughshod over their post-Soviet reforms, and who knows how this will turn once Putin is gone? But those who oppose Putin find themselves in prison ("bottom of the barrel" in @hobie1616 's words) and attempting to forcibly remove nukes from Russia would most likely trigger a war. You're right that if Russia "falls apart" that we could all be in for a rough ride, but it didn't fall apart post USSR in the nuclear sense, Russia and the USA worked well together to gather the nuclear arsenal from the outlying post-Soviet areas, get them secured, and keep them away from terrorists. One of our long-running programs was to fund this in Russia by buying their fissionable products for medical and research. (I don't remember the exact details on that program.)

As much as we all hate Putin for what he did in the Ukraine, we also need Russia to remain sufficiently coherent to protect that nuclear stockpile, currently larger than the rest of the world's nuclear stockpiles put together. In a more gentle future, it's likely that Russia and the USA will work together to get rid of another few thousand legacy nukes, but the scope of what that would actually require; the overland transport, the security, the engineering, the tracking and repurposing of the fissionable fuel, that kind of infrastructure and cost will be kinda huge.
 




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