Ukraine and Only Ukraine. If it isn't about Ukraine then fuck off

[Mark_K]

Buried in that is a very concise description of ground warfare with battles, pauses, follow on units, and reconstitution of depleted units who then can go back up and follow on through another group. I learned a bunch reading that.

He's probably right about it. In the open the Rooskies are likely to get creamed. Zaporizhia and Crimea are takable. Note his mention of how costly urban combat is. When it comes time to take big places like the city of Donetsk it will depend on if the Russian infantry will fight like their great-grandpappys did in Stalingrad, or perhaps like those Wagner jailbirds did in Bakmut. Morale should not be confused with desire to achieve political objectives. It can also be a simple matter of knowing beyond all doubt one has to fight or die.

They could make taking all the territory lost in 2014 not worth the cost. It's possible. A perhaps plausible end-state could be the pre-2022 lines, less Crimea, with the pre-2014 condition of guaranteed Russians access to their base at Sevastopol restored. Both get a face-saver. The Ukrainians for obviously kicking big bad Russia out, and the Russians get to say they preserved the break-away "republics". Peace with honor all around.

 

[Ishmael]

Peace with honor all around.

Russia has no honor left.

 

[Ishmael]

This is pretty ironic...offering Russians safe haven in Ukraine to get them away from their own military killing them.

 

[LeoV]

Russia has no honor left.

Dnipro.
The Russians attacked the city. They hit between two two-story residential buildings. Unfortunately, there are people under the rubble. All services are working.

The total number of victims has increased to 20. Of them, 17 are hospitalized. Among the wounded are 5 children. Doctors assess the condition of the three boys as serious. They are in the operating rooms.

Russia and honor...

 

[LeoV]

Mopeds flying and tu-95 close to launching cruise missiles.
Another attack on civilians in Russian style.

 

[barfy]

A perhaps plausible end-state could be the pre-2022 lines, less Crimea, with the pre-2014 condition of guaranteed Russians access to their base at Sevastopol restored

That worked well last time. As a bridge head to take Crimea.

 

[d'ranger]

Ukraine regains and retains it's pre 2014 territory. DMZ on Russian soil. Russia pays reparations. Putin and war criminals prosecuted. Ukraine joins NATO.

The end.

 

[Mark_K]

That worked well last time. As a bridge head to take Crimea.

Less trust and more verify can be expected for all 1,400 miles of border between these two nations.

 

[Keith]

He's probably right about it. In the open the Rooskies are likely to get creamed. Zaporizhia and Crimea are takable. Note his mention of how costly urban combat is. When it comes time to take big places like the city of Donetsk it will depend on if the Russian infantry will fight like their great-grandpappys did in Stalingrad, or perhaps like those Wagner jailbirds did in Bakmut. Morale should not be confused with desire to achieve political objectives. It can also be a simple matter of knowing beyond all doubt one has to fight or die.

They could make taking all the territory lost in 2014 not worth the cost. It's possible. A perhaps plausible end-state could be the pre-2022 lines, less Crimea, with the pre-2014 condition of guaranteed Russians access to their base at Sevastopol restored. Both get a face-saver. The Ukrainians for obviously kicking big bad Russia out, and the Russians get to say they preserved the break-away "republics". Peace with honor all around.

No,
Russia needs to leave everywhere 100%, defeated.
No,
Russia cannot be trusted on any deals, period.

 

[Keith]

Ukraine regains and retains it's pre 2014 territory. DMZ on Russian soil. Russia pays reparations. Putin and war criminals prosecuted. Ukraine joins NATO.

The end.

This

 

[Keith]

 

[Keith]

Just hanging out in the hood....

go ahead, make my day....

 

[Keith]

 

[Zonker]

They could make taking all the territory lost in 2014 not worth the cost. It's possible. A perhaps plausible end-state could be the pre-2022 lines, less Crimea, with the pre-2014 condition of guaranteed Russians access to their base at Sevastopol restored. Both get a face-saver. The Ukrainians for obviously kicking big bad Russia out, and the Russians get to say they preserved the break-away "republics".

Peace with honor all around.

Yeah but with the war criminals persecuted?

And they retreat to pre 2014 borders.

 

[Mark_K]

Yeah but with the war criminals persecuted?

And they retreat to pre 2014 borders.

I'm beginning to suspect the irony of my "peace with honor" is escaping most of the people here. Perhaps the Vietnam war has become too far in the past. After all, it's been over 50 years since Nixon said it, yet it lived as a good/bad joke for quite some time after, and it's the first thing that pops up when the phrase is googled today.

 

[barfy]

"Kermit" again with the uncomfortable truths.
Thanks Julia Davis.

 

[Steam Flyer]

I'm beginning to suspect the irony of my "peace with honor" is escaping most of the people here. Perhaps the Vietnam war has become too far in the past. After all, it's been over 50 years since Nixon said it, yet it lived as a good/bad joke for quite some time after, and it's the first thing that pops up when the phrase is googled today.

Good reference, another way to put it is that the Russians should just declare victory and go home.

 

[Keith]

 

[LeoV]

Fucking Russian Nazi scumbags calling for genocide loudly and proud.
Restrictions of weapons not to be used in Russia, unattainable with this kind of talk.

 

[LeoV]

Two-year-old killed, 22 injured in Russian missile attack near Dnipro. A two-year-old girl was found dead in the rubble of a residential building that was hit by a Russian missile strike on the town Pidhorodne in Dnipropetrovsk Oblast on June 3.

You wonder why Ukrainians do not trust Russia for peace and honor and gives a rat's ass for face saving.