Ukraine and Only Ukraine. If it isn't about Ukraine then fuck off

Mark_K

Super Anarchist


View attachment 530059
You cant trust the Russians.

Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.
 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,764
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Back to the desert

I'm sure the Warthog's toughness is overhyped, but I'm also sure it's a very tough plane. It is in fact designed and built to survive getting shot up by ground fire, including have an engine blown off.

The Air Force doesn't like close ground support, never has.
"Surviving" and limping back to crash on the runway is not "shrugging off" MANPADs. A hit anymore than a couple of shrapnel holes essentially makes them immediately combat ineffective and they are not longer going to continue shooting up tanks with holes in their engine. It's an immediate "OH FUCK", point the nose at home, and run away and hope you don't soak up any more.

Are they tougher than most other fighters? Absolutely! Modern jets are fairly fragile things. The A-10s toughness comes in large part from it's simplicity.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,610
10,282
Eastern NC
"Surviving" and limping back to crash on the runway is not "shrugging off" MANPADs. A hit anymore than a couple of shrapnel holes essentially makes them immediately combat ineffective and they are not longer going to continue shooting up tanks with holes in their engine. It's an immediate "OH FUCK", point the nose at home, and run away and hope you don't soak up any more.

Are they tougher than most other fighters? Absolutely! Modern jets are fairly fragile things. The A-10s toughness comes in large part from it's simplicity.

We might agree more than you're comfortable with. I've already said a couple of times with regard to USA systems that we should give the UKRs what they're asking for, not whatever we've got lying around and aren't using.

I only know the rudiments of mission planning but a sortie into a strongly held Russian zone with a squad of A-10s would be difficult and dangerous. Could have a very high payoff but likely to have a high price tag also. I don't think the UKRs have the money or the manpower to throw a wave of A-10s over the front with a massive infantry charge behind them with coordinated arty strikes coming into the mix. You only gamble on rolling them up like a rug -if- you have something up your sleeve to keep them from rolling YOU up like a rug when your go-for-broke attack fails and everything you threw into it has vanished in puffs of smoke.

However BITD I read considerable accounts of A-10 sorties in Iraq, and while we had "air superiority" there were a hell of a lot of SA-7s loose in that area, not many A-10s brought down by them. Rather few, in fact.
 

LeoV

Super Anarchist
13,039
4,015
The Netherlands
Russian MP Evgeny Popov tells Newshour on
@bbcworldservice
: "We have attacked military infrastructure at Odessa port & destroyed harpoon missiles there. "We are following the Istanbul deal and cargo ships are ready to send grain out.”
 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,764
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Back to the desert
We might agree more than you're comfortable with. I've already said a couple of times with regard to USA systems that we should give the UKRs what they're asking for, not whatever we've got lying around and aren't using.

I only know the rudiments of mission planning but a sortie into a strongly held Russian zone with a squad of A-10s would be difficult and dangerous. Could have a very high payoff but likely to have a high price tag also. I don't think the UKRs have the money or the manpower to throw a wave of A-10s over the front with a massive infantry charge behind them with coordinated arty strikes coming into the mix. You only gamble on rolling them up like a rug -if- you have something up your sleeve to keep them from rolling YOU up like a rug when your go-for-broke attack fails and everything you threw into it has vanished in puffs of smoke.

However BITD I read considerable accounts of A-10 sorties in Iraq, and while we had "air superiority" there were a hell of a lot of SA-7s loose in that area, not many A-10s brought down by them. Rather few, in fact.
SA-7s..... meh. MANPAD tech has come a LONG way since 1991.
 

Rasputin22

Rasputin22
14,126
3,670
We might agree more than you're comfortable with. I've already said a couple of times with regard to USA systems that we should give the UKRs what they're asking for, not whatever we've got lying around and aren't using.

I only know the rudiments of mission planning but a sortie into a strongly held Russian zone with a squad of A-10s would be difficult and dangerous. Could have a very high payoff but likely to have a high price tag also. I don't think the UKRs have the money or the manpower to throw a wave of A-10s over the front with a massive infantry charge behind them with coordinated arty strikes coming into the mix. You only gamble on rolling them up like a rug -if- you have something up your sleeve to keep them from rolling YOU up like a rug when your go-for-broke attack fails and everything you threw into it has vanished in puffs of smoke.

However BITD I read considerable accounts of A-10 sorties in Iraq, and while we had "air superiority" there were a hell of a lot of SA-7s loose in that area, not many A-10s brought down by them. Rather few, in fact.

Women A-10 drivers...

1658603218214.png


1658603250805.png


Just a flesh wound for this A-10

1658603345754.png
 

Ishmael

54,268
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Fuctifino
Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.

 

mikewof

mikewof
45,868
1,246

Agree, it's key progress, it's U.N. compliant and Turkey took the lead. Agreements like this accomplish a lot more than missiles, mortars and bullets.

Unfortunately, militaries all over the planet are jammed with the same kind of warring fanboys as in this thread, they believe to their core that wars can be more easily ended with missiles, mortars and bullets than with agreements. But as long as their own children aren't delivered home in body bags, they've little compunction in escalating someone else's war.
 

Olsonist

Disgusting Liberal Elitist
30,047
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New Oak City
Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.
The Ukes are saying that 2 Kalibrs were shot down and 2 hit Odessa. They were fired from a warship in the Black Sea near Crimea.


It makes no logical sense whatsoever; but then if you're just trying to make everything feel uncertain, it makes perfect sense.
 
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Mark_K

Super Anarchist
The Ukes are saying that 2 Kalibrs were shot down and 2 hit Odessa. They were fired from a warship in the Black Sea near Crimea.


It makes no logical sense whatsoever; but then if you're just trying to make everything feel uncertain, it makes perfect sense.
Looks like they had some things they wanted to hit before the grain ships get there.
 
Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.
Nope, if you haven't figured it out by now, you can't trust any deals Russia signs.
 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
29,527
4,561
Reports from a couple of writers I follow who know their stuff - report one comes from a fighter in Donbas saying they are very happy that Ukraine fighters are flying over their positions on a regular basis. Which brings up the 2nd: The US & Nato have sent 80 Mig-29s to Ukraine on the downlow with some listed as "parts". Ukraine has done a great job keeping their planes intact by among other things parking under underpasses to keep them hidden. Not going to go dig up the links since I read these while mobile so take it for what you want. I have no reason to question or disbelieve either one.
slava Ukraine
 


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