Ukraine and Only Ukraine. If it isn't about Ukraine then fuck off

[Mark_K]

View attachment 530059
You cant trust the Russians.

Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.

 

[Burning Man]

a-10 battle damage at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

I'm sure the Warthog's toughness is overhyped, but I'm also sure it's a very tough plane. It is in fact designed and built to survive getting shot up by ground fire, including have an engine blown off.

The Air Force doesn't like close ground support, never has.

"Surviving" and limping back to crash on the runway is not "shrugging off" MANPADs. A hit anymore than a couple of shrapnel holes essentially makes them immediately combat ineffective and they are not longer going to continue shooting up tanks with holes in their engine. It's an immediate "OH FUCK", point the nose at home, and run away and hope you don't soak up any more.

Are they tougher than most other fighters? Absolutely! Modern jets are fairly fragile things. The A-10s toughness comes in large part from it's simplicity.

 

[Burning Man]

One of the few "modern" planes designed to be blown up and still get home.

Enough space to load up with chaff, flares and harms. A sam radar operators worst nightmare....

A-10s don't carry HARMS. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Steam Flyer]

"Surviving" and limping back to crash on the runway is not "shrugging off" MANPADs. A hit anymore than a couple of shrapnel holes essentially makes them immediately combat ineffective and they are not longer going to continue shooting up tanks with holes in their engine. It's an immediate "OH FUCK", point the nose at home, and run away and hope you don't soak up any more.

Are they tougher than most other fighters? Absolutely! Modern jets are fairly fragile things. The A-10s toughness comes in large part from it's simplicity.

We might agree more than you're comfortable with. I've already said a couple of times with regard to USA systems that we should give the UKRs what they're asking for, not whatever we've got lying around and aren't using.

I only know the rudiments of mission planning but a sortie into a strongly held Russian zone with a squad of A-10s would be difficult and dangerous. Could have a very high payoff but likely to have a high price tag also. I don't think the UKRs have the money or the manpower to throw a wave of A-10s over the front with a massive infantry charge behind them with coordinated arty strikes coming into the mix. You only gamble on rolling them up like a rug -if- you have something up your sleeve to keep them from rolling YOU up like a rug when your go-for-broke attack fails and everything you threw into it has vanished in puffs of smoke.

However BITD I read considerable accounts of A-10 sorties in Iraq, and while we had "air superiority" there were a hell of a lot of SA-7s loose in that area, not many A-10s brought down by them. Rather few, in fact.

 

[LeoV]

Russian MP Evgeny Popov tells Newshour on
@bbcworldservice
: "We have attacked military infrastructure at Odessa port & destroyed harpoon missiles there. "We are following the Istanbul deal and cargo ships are ready to send grain out.”

 

[Burning Man]

We might agree more than you're comfortable with. I've already said a couple of times with regard to USA systems that we should give the UKRs what they're asking for, not whatever we've got lying around and aren't using.

I only know the rudiments of mission planning but a sortie into a strongly held Russian zone with a squad of A-10s would be difficult and dangerous. Could have a very high payoff but likely to have a high price tag also. I don't think the UKRs have the money or the manpower to throw a wave of A-10s over the front with a massive infantry charge behind them with coordinated arty strikes coming into the mix. You only gamble on rolling them up like a rug -if- you have something up your sleeve to keep them from rolling YOU up like a rug when your go-for-broke attack fails and everything you threw into it has vanished in puffs of smoke.

However BITD I read considerable accounts of A-10 sorties in Iraq, and while we had "air superiority" there were a hell of a lot of SA-7s loose in that area, not many A-10s brought down by them. Rather few, in fact.

SA-7s..... meh. MANPAD tech has come a LONG way since 1991.

 

[Rasputin22]

We might agree more than you're comfortable with. I've already said a couple of times with regard to USA systems that we should give the UKRs what they're asking for, not whatever we've got lying around and aren't using.

I only know the rudiments of mission planning but a sortie into a strongly held Russian zone with a squad of A-10s would be difficult and dangerous. Could have a very high payoff but likely to have a high price tag also. I don't think the UKRs have the money or the manpower to throw a wave of A-10s over the front with a massive infantry charge behind them with coordinated arty strikes coming into the mix. You only gamble on rolling them up like a rug -if- you have something up your sleeve to keep them from rolling YOU up like a rug when your go-for-broke attack fails and everything you threw into it has vanished in puffs of smoke.

However BITD I read considerable accounts of A-10 sorties in Iraq, and while we had "air superiority" there were a hell of a lot of SA-7s loose in that area, not many A-10s brought down by them. Rather few, in fact.

Women A-10 drivers...

Just a flesh wound for this A-10

 

[Ishmael]

Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.

 

[Mark_K]

Makes no sense so let's see if it continues. Quite possibly an officer didn't get the memo. There is no limit to Russian armed forces incompetence these days.

 

[mikewof]

Well, this is a little progress:

Russia and Ukraine reach crucial grain deal to avert global food crisis​

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/russia-and-ukraine-reach-crucial-grain-deal-to-avert-global-food-crisis/news-story/2edfd89df1bca7d26e1ae9c096abd950

Agree, it's key progress, it's U.N. compliant and Turkey took the lead. Agreements like this accomplish a lot more than missiles, mortars and bullets.

Unfortunately, militaries all over the planet are jammed with the same kind of warring fanboys as in this thread, they believe to their core that wars can be more easily ended with missiles, mortars and bullets than with agreements. But as long as their own children aren't delivered home in body bags, they've little compunction in escalating someone else's war.

 

[Olsonist]

Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.

The Ukes are saying that 2 Kalibrs were shot down and 2 hit Odessa. They were fired from a warship in the Black Sea near Crimea.

Russian missiles hit Ukraine port, while Kyiv says it is still preparing grain exports

Russian missiles hit the major port of Odesa in southern Ukraine on Saturday, the Ukrainian military said.

www.cnbc.com

It makes no logical sense whatsoever; but then if you're just trying to make everything feel uncertain, it makes perfect sense.

 

[Ishmael]

 

[Mark_K]

The Ukes are saying that 2 Kalibrs were shot down and 2 hit Odessa. They were fired from a warship in the Black Sea near Crimea.

Russian missiles hit Ukraine port, while Kyiv says it is still preparing grain exports

Russian missiles hit the major port of Odesa in southern Ukraine on Saturday, the Ukrainian military said.

www.cnbc.com

It makes no logical sense whatsoever; but then if you're just trying to make everything feel uncertain, it makes perfect sense.

Looks like they had some things they wanted to hit before the grain ships get there.

 

[Olsonist]

Looks like they had some things they wanted to hit before the grain ships get there.

No, that doesn't compute. They've already had ample opportunity to do that, whatever that is.
On the flip side, the Russians have been sending in ammo disguised as civilian aid.

 

[Mark_K]

No, that doesn't compute. They've already had ample opportunity to do that, whatever that is.
On the flip side, they've been sending in ammo disguised as civilian aid.

Computes a hell of a lot better than signing an agreement but stopping the shipments with artillery does.

 

[Keith]

Can't see a missile. Might be a bomb planted by someone, perhaps one of the pro-Russian partisans who are known to be in that town...or some kind of accident. It makes no sense for the Russians to lob a missile into Odesa the day after getting the accord signed, but that accord could outrage a pro-Russian terrorist. But why out on the end of a dock like that?? Did practically fuk-all for damage.

Nope, if you haven't figured it out by now, you can't trust any deals Russia signs.

 

[barfy]

I'm gonna wait for that to show up on ISW. Rando Twitter isn't a great source.

At 2:30. From "Oleksiy Arestovych, presidential adviser and key spokesperson for Ukraine at war"

 

[Olsonist]

At 2:30. From "Oleksiy Arestovych, presidential adviser and key spokesperson for Ukraine at war"

Now that's what I'm talkin' about.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

A-10s don't carry HARMS. Sorry for the confusion.

I'm guessing a harm would be better but I'm not sure the radar operator would be happier with mavericks instead.

 

[d'ranger]

Reports from a couple of writers I follow who know their stuff - report one comes from a fighter in Donbas saying they are very happy that Ukraine fighters are flying over their positions on a regular basis. Which brings up the 2nd: The US & Nato have sent 80 Mig-29s to Ukraine on the downlow with some listed as "parts". Ukraine has done a great job keeping their planes intact by among other things parking under underpasses to keep them hidden. Not going to go dig up the links since I read these while mobile so take it for what you want. I have no reason to question or disbelieve either one.
slava Ukraine