Ukraine

[enigmatically2]

Not sure which of the yanks this supports, but it looks like "giving comfort to the enemy" and hence treason (by UK law at least) to me. Russia is winning?

 

[MR.CLEAN]

Not sure which of the yanks this supports, but it looks like "giving comfort to the enemy" and hence treason (by UK law at least) to me. Russia is winning?

The word pedophile sure is overused. Not for this guy.

Ritter was the subject in two law enforcement sting operations in 2001.[28] He was charged in June 2001 with trying to set up a meeting with an undercover police officer posing as a 16-year-old girl.[29][30] He was charged with a misdemeanor crime of "attempted endangerment of the welfare of a child". The charge was dismissed and the record was sealed after he completed six months of pre-trial probation.[30][31] After this information was made public in early 2003, Ritter said that the timing of the leak was politically motivated in order to silence his opposition to the Bush administration's push toward war with Iraq.[29][30][32]

Ritter was arrested again in November 2009[33] over communications with a police decoy he met on an Internet chat site. Police said that he exposed himself, via a web camera, after the officer repeatedly identified himself as a 15-year-old girl.[2] Ritter said in his own testimony during the trial that he believed the other party was an adult acting out her fantasy.[34] The chat room had an 'age 18 and above' policy, which Ritter stated to the undercover officer.[2] The next month, Ritter waived his right to a preliminary hearing and was released on a $25,000 unsecured bail. Charges included "unlawful contact with a minor, criminal use of a communications facility, corruption of minors, indecent exposure, possessing instruments of crime, criminal attempt and criminal solicitation".[35] Ritter rejected a plea bargain and was found guilty of all but the criminal attempt count in a courtroom in Monroe County, Pennsylvania, on April 14, 2011.[2][36] In October 2011, he received a sentence of 1½ to 5½ years in prison.[37] He was sent to Laurel Highlands state prison in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, in March 2012 and paroled in September 2014.[38][34][31]

 

[IPLore]

Not really: It's very important to acknowledge how we got here: Russia invaded a sovereign nation in violation of the UN Charter and several of its own treaties.

The why is important too, though even simpler: Because Russia's economy, demographics, and culture are all in the process of failing, and autocrats don't like to fail: It has a way of reducing their lifespan.

Back on track with the invasion of Ukraine.

I believe you are arguing that the reasons that Russia invaded Ukraine was an almost inevitable conclusion resulting from economic forces, demographics and culture combined with an autocracy.

I think you are suggesting that with an economy failing at home, this was Russia's Guerra de las Malvinas. As such, no blame accrues to US and West European foreign policy.

Noam, John Mearsheimer and others would disagree with you. They suggest that US and to a lesser extent WE foreign policy was driven by a mistaken reliance in the power of globalization. Successive administrations believed that opening up economies and trade would lead inevitably to democracy. The initial success of admitting China to the WTO, the fall of the Berlin wall, the progress of capitalism in South Asia were confirming data points to the thesis that global trade, capitalism and democracy were inevitable. They thought Russia understood this. It was inevitable that Ukraine was going to turn West, turn to democracy and turn to NATO and the EU. The generation of US foreign policy experts who had understood central European Realpolitik and the balance of power, had retired or gone into private practice. James Baker's promise not to expand NATO "one inch" to the east was forgotten. This was a new generation who relied on the 21st century doctrine of democratic capitalism as fervently as the Comintern believed in Das Capital and the inevitability of social revolution. It is funny how dogmas never work out.

The argument runs that the US and EU could have heeded central European sensitivities to a balance of power, and obtained treaties and guaranties to secure the sovereignty of borders in neutral buffer zone nations. Instead, US and WE foreign policy blithely and publicly promised Ukraine (and Georgia) membership of NATO and the EU. provoking Russia into occupying South Georgia, the Crimea and then invading Ukraine.

I dont know who is right. Clean or Mersheimer/Noam.

However I really dont think it matters. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle. The people of Ukraine have no interest in becoming a buffer zone and Russia will not leave Crimea unless they are militarily ejected. The West has nothing to offer Russia, and Russia has very little to offer the West. At the moment, there are only military outcomes.

 

[IPLore]

The word pedophile sure is overused. Not for this guy.

On that we can agree......a most unsavory individual in every sense.

 

[IPLore]

Not sure which of the yanks this supports, but it looks like "giving comfort to the enemy" and hence treason (by UK law at least) to me. Russia is winning?

The UK law on treason is defined by the Treason Act of 1351. It is a rattling good read.

High Treason includes: committing adultery with the sovereign's consort, consorting with the sovereign's eldest unmarried daughter, or with the wife of the heir to the throne, counterfeiting money or being a catholic priest.

The death penalty for high treason was finally revoked in 1998.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

Back on track with the invasion of Ukraine.

I believe you are arguing that the reasons that Russia invaded Ukraine was an almost inevitable conclusion resulting from economic forces, demographics and culture combined with an autocracy.

I think you are suggesting that with an economy failing at home, this was Russia's Guerra de las Malvinas. As such, no blame accrues to US and West European foreign policy.

Noam, John Mearsheimer and others would disagree with you. They suggest that US and to a lesser extent WE foreign policy was driven by a mistaken reliance in the power of globalization. Successive administrations believed that opening up economies and trade would lead inevitably to democracy. The initial success of admitting China to the WTO, the fall of the Berlin wall, the progress of capitalism in South Asia were confirming data points to the thesis that global trade, capitalism and democracy were inevitable. They thought Russia understood this. It was inevitable that Ukraine was going to turn West, turn to democracy and turn to NATO and the EU. The generation of US foreign policy experts who had understood central European Realpolitik and the balance of power, had retired or gone into private practice. James Baker's promise not to expand NATO "one inch" to the east was forgotten. This was a new generation who relied on the 21st century doctrine of democratic capitalism as fervently as the Comintern believed in Das Capital and the inevitability of social revolution. It is funny how dogmas never work out.

The argument runs that the US and EU could have heeded central European sensitivities to a balance of power, and obtained treaties and guaranties to secure the sovereignty of borders in neutral buffer zone nations. Instead, US and WE foreign policy blithely and publicly promised Ukraine (and Georgia) membership of NATO and the EU. provoking Russia into occupying South Georgia, the Crimea and then invading Ukraine.

I dont know who is right. Clean or Mersheimer/Noam.

However I really dont think it matters. You cannot put the genie back in the bottle. The people of Ukraine have no interest in becoming a buffer zone and Russia will not leave Crimea unless they are militarily ejected. The West has nothing to offer Russia, and Russia has very little to offer the West. At the moment, there are only military outcomes.

Replying directly to what you've quoted...

Chomsky is wrong.
Opening up economy's and trade doesn't lead to democracy. It leads to interdependence, which leads to peace.

Of course, that theory falls down when the world's biggest gas station decides to shit on its customers...

 

[LeoV]

Only non supporters of Ukraine fighting or freedom;
The extreme left, the extreme right and the extreme dumbasses.
You could argue the GOP candidates running are mostly a combination of the two last ones.

 

[dogwatch]

Not sure which of the yanks this supports, but it looks like "giving comfort to the enemy" and hence treason (by UK law at least) to me.

What about fixing a dripping tap in the Russian embassy in London? There still very much is an embassy in the UK and also in Washington. Your use of "enemy" consequently seems a little loose.

Closer to the subject in hand, do we understand what happened/is happening in Lyman. There were assertions it had been encircled but RUS says it has withdrawn and UKR isn't claiming large-scale captures/surrenders? The withdrawal in any case is cause for celebration.

 

[enigmatically2]

It is now reported (from both sides) that Lyman has officially now under Ukr control, though there is some fighting still. I doubt either side know how many have been captured yet. And it might not be in either sides interest to let us know.

What is clear is that Russians are now openly discussing this as a humiliating defeat, not a regrouping etc. This is true online and on tv. It seems to be a sea change in perception. For example

 

[dogwatch]

If large numbers had been captured, I'm not sure why it would benefit UKR not to say so now. But maybe we will hear more.

 

[enigmatically2]

Remember that many might want RU to know they surrendered.
However looking like Russia's did (attempt to?) get out at last chance. Conflicting stories about how many succeeded. But a lot were killed

 

[IPLore]

Replying directly to what you've quoted...

Chomsky is wrong.
Opening up economy's and trade doesn't lead to democracy. It leads to interdependence, which leads to peace.

Of course, that theory falls down when the world's biggest gas station decides to shit on its customers...

I agree with you.

Theory falls down when third largest gas station decides its customers need him more than he needs them......and when a pandemic causes customers to realize they need shorter supply chains. The theory has never been as fragile as it is now, especially in the South China sea.

 

[enigmatically2]

That theory was also dealt a shattering blow by WW1 because they thought that would keep peace then

 

[enigmatically2]

Russia seem to building next defensive line at Kreminna. Which is 36km back from Lyman. And close to severodonetsk.

Also reports of 20km advance south along Dnipro towards kherson

 

[P Flados]

Only non supporters of Ukraine fighting or freedom;
The extreme left, the extreme right and the extreme dumbasses.
You could argue the GOP candidates running are mostly a combination of the two last ones.

As a traditional conservative, I am disgusted with all three but especially the current candidates that do seem to be that specific combination..

 

[P Flados]

For the Lyman situation it looks like UKR did not try to block the withdrawal but instead set up a "kill zone" on the escape route. Carnage ensued.

 

[Mid]

do you people realise it's real human beings involved, this fred reads like a description of a chess match

 

[Ishmael]

The argument runs that the US and EU could have heeded central European sensitivities to a balance of power, and obtained treaties and guaranties to secure the sovereignty of borders in neutral buffer zone nations. Instead, US and WE foreign policy blithely and publicly promised Ukraine (and Georgia) membership of NATO and the EU. provoking Russia into occupying South Georgia, the Crimea and then invading Ukraine.

Russia ignored the treaties it had with Ukraine when they invaded. Treaties that are not honoured are useless, and Russia has broken its word many times.

"Provoking Russia" is bullshit. This is all about Putin's crazy idea of resurrecting the Glorious Russian Empire.

 

[Keith]

 

[LeoV]

You can explain what Putin claims to be grievances and conclude that they are either lies or delusions. 100% one of the two.

Ukrainians are NOT Nazis.
Russians speakers were never persecuted.
NATO is not a threat.

That people still argue about that after 6 months of war crimes.
The real reason Russia is at war is because we are satanists, he said it himself.