Ukraine

motorbike

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It's OK when Russia invades it' neighbor, starting a major war.

Are you suggesting that countries who attack and invade their neighbors should be held totally safe from attack, themselves? Even their armed forces?
No I am not say that at all, its the context of the situation that matters. Biden did not want UKR to attack Russian soil so blatantly which is why the HIMAR's and various missile systems are supplied range limited. While the backslappers here are focused on point scoring attacks the US administration is focused on bigger pictures like avoiding a full scale war with Russia.

I am not sure if people really get what that means, despite the bumbling backwards image of Russia cultivated in the popular press, we dont really know their full military capability but do the citizens of the EU and homeland USA really want to find out? Once war is declared missiles might be flying into a town near you. I am pretty certain cool heads will prevail but war is unpredictable.

Further to your comment should the US be totally safe from the countries it has invaded? Lets face it the list is long and there are millions of people who have had loved ones killed by its actions and just like the EU is finding out now pretending that differences and grudges can be settled according to liberal ideals is fantasyland. As I keep saying in regard to international relations might is right and democracy does not exist.
 

motorbike

Member
102
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Saw a Pentagon briefing today where the guy was questioned about reactions to the attacks inside Russia. He basically said that if it happened it was not US weaponry, but that the US weapons supply has and will continue to evolve to help UKR's needs as required. Did not rule out anything. Asked again about if the US would help even an effort to drive RU out of Crimea, he maintained that this is up to UKR to decide...
Blinken stated today that the US is supporting pre 2022 borders i.e Crimea is Russian
 

enigmatically2

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No I am not say that at all, its the context of the situation that matters. Biden did not want UKR to attack Russian soil so blatantly which is why the HIMAR's and various missile systems are supplied range limited. While the backslappers here are focused on point scoring attacks the US administration is focused on bigger pictures like avoiding a full scale war with Russia.

I am not sure if people really get what that means, despite the bumbling backwards image of Russia cultivated in the popular press, we dont really know their full military capability but do the citizens of the EU and homeland USA really want to find out? Once war is declared missiles might be flying into a town near you. I am pretty certain cool heads will prevail but war is unpredictable.

Further to your comment should the US be totally safe from the countries it has invaded? Lets face it the list is long and there are millions of people who have had loved ones killed by its actions and just like the EU is finding out now pretending that differences and grudges can be settled according to liberal ideals is fantasyland. As I keep saying in regard to international relations might is right and democracy does not exist.
The ATACMs are not supplied because they are ballistic. And the potential for confusion with ICBMs is too great. The US have stated they are happy with UKr firing what it has.

Not sure what Fantasyland you think is happening in Europe, but democracy is very strong here. Fortunately democracy and liberal economies work better, so if if might is right, we will also prevail. I remind you that NATO has but used a fraction of its capabilities. All those tomahawks, F35s, bombers, tanks, newer missiles? Based on what we have seen before the RU air force and army would be torn apart. The only competent force would be your submarines
 

motorbike

Member
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More lies and half truths?
Actually he said Kyiv must decide for itself whether to push RU out of crimea

"SECRETARY BLINKEN: Our focus is on continuing to do what we’ve been doing, which is to make sure that Ukraine has in its hands what it needs to defend itself, what it needs to push back against the Russian aggression, to take back territory that’s been seized from it since February 24th, to make sure as well that it has the support economically and on a humanitarian basis to withstand what’s happening in the country every single day. That’s our focus."

At Blinkens level words matter.

The ATACMs are not supplied because they are ballistic. And the potential for confusion with ICBMs is too great. The US have stated they are happy with UKr firing what it has.

Not sure what Fantasyland you think is happening in Europe, but democracy is very strong here. Fortunately democracy and liberal economies work better, so if if might is right, we will also prevail. I remind you that NATO has but used a fraction of its capabilities. All those tomahawks, F35s, bombers, tanks, newer missiles? Based on what we have seen before the RU air force and army would be torn apart. The only competent force would be your submarines

I guess it depends on what you mean by democracy, have you had a look at a few EU electoral results lately?
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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The deep strike was more symbolic that a real threat. The Ukrainians converted old Soviet surveillance drones into an attack role with a small warhead. Beyond the warhead, the biggest changes had to be related to targeting capabilities. I saw a tweet indicating that at least one of the strikes included some element of manual control for final approach by Spec Ops personnel that were nearby.

This capability is not going to allow wide spread meaningful attacks. I doubt that they have a lot of the old systems to start with. And look at the "not great" results. The targeting got them close enough to damage some planes, but the planes were not entirely destroyed. Now that the Russians know what to watch for, intercepting these systems becomes more likely for future attempts.

Again, very symbolic, but probably not a "super tool" that will change the game.
It was a Doolittle strike. Powerful message, even if the results aren't a big deal militarily.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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No I am not say that at all, its the context of the situation that matters. Biden did not want UKR to attack Russian soil so blatantly which is why the HIMAR's and various missile systems are supplied range limited. While the backslappers here are focused on point scoring attacks the US administration is focused on bigger pictures like avoiding a full scale war with Russia.

I am not sure if people really get what that means, despite the bumbling backwards image of Russia cultivated in the popular press, we dont really know their full military capability but do the citizens of the EU and homeland USA really want to find out? Once war is declared missiles might be flying into a town near you. I am pretty certain cool heads will prevail but war is unpredictable.

Further to your comment should the US be totally safe from the countries it has invaded? Lets face it the list is long and there are millions of people who have had loved ones killed by its actions and just like the EU is finding out now pretending that differences and grudges can be settled according to liberal ideals is fantasyland. As I keep saying in regard to international relations might is right and democracy does not exist.
US weaponry was not used, so the HIMARs restriction is working.
 

Stingray~

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US weaponry was not used, so the HIMARs restriction is working.
It's a good thing RU has declared them to be UKR weaponry, it could suggest they have no appetite to escalate either.

Again, even just the decision by UKR to attack this deep into RU has to be a very big concern for RU.. It for example opens up the possibility that RU's AF could start getting obliterated.
 

slug zitski

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The ATACMs are not supplied because they are ballistic. And the potential for confusion with ICBMs is too great. The US have stated they are happy with UKr firing what it has.

Not sure what Fantasyland you think is happening in Europe, but democracy is very strong here. Fortunately democracy and liberal economies work better, so if if might is right, we will also prevail. I remind you that NATO has but used a fraction of its capabilities. All those tomahawks, F35s, bombers, tanks, newer missiles? Based on what we have seen before the RU air force and army would be torn apart. The only competent force would be your submarines
German defense minister and democracy

Listen to her words

Words mean something

 

Mid

Blues Rule
way past time Russia felt some of what Ukraine is living with.

1670369717187.png
 

motorbike

Member
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motorbike

Member
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8
It's a good thing RU has declared them to be UKR weaponry, it could suggest they have no appetite to escalate either.

Again, even just the decision by UKR to attack this deep into RU has to be a very big concern for RU.. It for example opens up the possibility that RU's AF could start getting obliterated.
I doubt they are too concerned strategically, sure its a blow but on campaign level its just noise.
 

enigmatically2

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Stingray~

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Pretty sure a big reason for this was Kiev bombing the Donbass for 8 years
Bombing RU-backed separatists inside Ukraine's borders.

The big takeaway from especially the US is that support will continue and will grow, towards whatever UKR wants as its goals. And if you listen to what Pres Z said to the G20 last week, that includes bombing RU out of not only the Donbas but bombing them out of Crimea too.

Putin badly misjudged this, watch.
 




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