Ukraine

motorbike

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Those who fail to appreciate the magnitude of what the steppe societies did to the inhabitants of what is now russia - over and over - will never understand why the vast majority of Russians have an inherited psychological need to be dominated by their superiors.

Those who fail to appreciate the impact of 100 years of brain drain and 25 years of hardcore anti-intellectualism will never understand why Russian society has been unable to plan, invent, design, or build anything remotely effective over the past decade. The average 100 IQ resident of russia has an IQ of closer to 85 in the US or 80 in Europe.

Except for the RD 180, what have the Russians ever done for us?
 

Terry Hollis

Super Anarchist
No, they didn't fail at all. Consider their goals.
The USA's goal was to rebuild a functioning nation-state with a stable gov't on at least slightly democratic forms, so that country would not be a threat again but could be a trading partner (a junior partner, sure).

The USSR's goal was to occupy and exploit those country and ruthlessly extract any possible value, grinding down the people in the process. Part of the reason for this is so that Russians at home would see the process and think "Good, my country is a mighty conqueror" and also "thank fuck I live here and not there." They succeeded at this goal, they just didn't think ahead to play the long game.
I am not a mind reader so I don't know what Stalin's goals were, given the outcome which does not require mind reading we can say that Russia failed because all of the land that they obtained in Europe during ww2 has been lost, that's a failure.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,586
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I am not a mind reader so I don't know what Stalin's goals were, given the outcome which does not require mind reading we can say that Russia failed because all of the land that they obtained in Europe during ww2 has been lost, that's a failure.

Not in Stalin's lifetime. Not a "fail" to him, at all. No mind reading required.

When I buy a car, I don't give a shit if it finally stops running decades after I'm dead and gone.

Now, a failure of Russia's post-Stalin leadership? Or post-Kruschev, since he really worked at making some things go and others not... yes. But they were handed a deck of cards that had been deliberately set on fire in the first place, kinda hard to come back from that. If they wanted what you'd call "success" they would have had to try some radical changes and that would include not grinding the people under quite so badly.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
Not in Stalin's lifetime. Not a "fail" to him, at all. No mind reading required.

When I buy a car, I don't give a shit if it finally stops running decades after I'm dead and gone.

Now, a failure of Russia's post-Stalin leadership? Or post-Kruschev, since he really worked at making some things go and others not... yes. But they were handed a deck of cards that had been deliberately set on fire in the first place, kinda hard to come back from that. If they wanted what you'd call "success" they would have had to try some radical changes and that would include not grinding the people under quite so badly.
My understanding is Stalin created a system that worked, the problem was that it absolutely needed a Stalin to run it. Hedrick Smith described it as a problem of corruption, which that system practically begs to start happening. When Joe Steel was running things a manager who indulged was all but assured of a bullet in the head and knew nearly everybody he screwed could make that happen.

When the inevitable easing of that draconian system began (Kruschev on) it was structurally doomed to rampant corruption. Got so bad, come the late 70s, Russians were already starting to pine for the "good ol' days" under Joe when they didn't have to grease a palm to get just about anything beyond groceries.
 

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
7,104
1,469
worldwide
My understanding is Stalin created a system that worked, the problem was that it absolutely needed a Stalin to run it. Hedrick Smith described it as a problem of corruption, which that system practically begs to start happening. When Joe Steel was running things a manager who indulged was all but assured of a bullet in the head and knew nearly everybody he screwed could make that happen.

When the inevitable easing of that draconian system began (Kruschev on) it was structurally doomed to rampant corruption. Got so bad, come the late 70s, Russians were already starting to pine for the "good ol' days" under Joe when they didn't have to grease a palm to get just about anything beyond groceries.
Yes

for instance collective farming and national food security

it also suffered tragic consequences when first introduced

and corruption ran wild under Yeltsin, hence the rise of Putin
 

Sailbydate

Super Anarchist
11,855
3,427
Kohimarama
I asked myself the question, "Why are, Russians such fucking losers". Not having the answer, I turned to Google - as you do. Entertaining, if not illuminating.

 

Priscilla

Super Anarchist
4,363
2,997
Got some Ruskie tennis players rocking up here soon in Aotearoa for a tournament got to love the ATP and WTA attitude about not wanting to sanction them because of "concern" about forcing them to take responsibility for “the actions and decisions of their government.”
 

barfy

Super Anarchist
5,142
1,419
Got some Ruskie tennis players rocking up here soon in Aotearoa for a tournament got to love the ATP and WTA attitude about not wanting to sanction them because of "concern" about forcing them to take responsibility for “the actions and decisions of their government.”
Those venues would be a good place to park a big fo truck for a few days.
 

barfy

Super Anarchist
5,142
1,419
Got some Ruskie tennis players rocking up here soon in Aotearoa for a tournament got to love the ATP and WTA attitude about not wanting to sanction them because of "concern" about forcing them to take responsibility for “the actions and decisions of their government.”
A little more research leads me to believe recent precedent in UK could have something to do with it.
 

LeoV

Super Anarchist
13,032
4,009
The Netherlands
Yes, Putin's talent was organizing the corruption for the benefit of loyal oligarchs.
Which started under Yeltsin, after the coup, he disbanded democracy and in came government brutality. Selling state assets to loyal underlings. Which became oligarchs after a lot of violence and murders. Putin was the hand picked successor. Continued and expanded this method. And the Russians looked away and never protested in meaningful numbers.

Meanwhile in Ukraine there was never an attack on the democratic rules, till the Russian puppet tried it, Yankovich. Street protests made that fail. That was Maidan about. Ukraine had oligarchs too, but as it was still a democratic rule, the election results were surprising and they could not pick one/ subdue to one strong man and competed underling with supporting different parties.

Could be that it was harder for Russians to protests, but this made the difference between two very similar states.
 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,240
1,796
South Coast, UK
Russian national teams should certainly not be competing abroad. I have mixed feelings about Russian nationals competing abroad but if there isn't a blanket ban on Russian visitors, I'm not sure individual Russians should be prevented from competing. In general we will not know their views on the war, it is unreasonable to demand public expression of their opinion since a negative statement could have implications for themselves and their families. Nor can Russia as a whole be considered a democracy in a meaningful sense. Free societies don't impose collective punishments.
 


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