Ukraine

[EYESAILOR]

one of the most contentious issues in Ukraine was and is Americas forced land privatization

it has destroyed villages , towns and impoverished whole sectors of society .
you must educate yourself before you go around the world blowing people up

Link to :Why Does China Own So Much of Ukraine

View attachment 558998

Errmmmm Through the eyes of Russian propaganda, China and America may seem like one and the same. Trust me , they are different.

Anyway....Thanks for the link. It explains why China is not going to support the Russian attempt at invading Ukraine. It turns out China owns a lot of property in Ukraine that it does not want confiscated by Russia.

 

[Stingray~]

Friend in Holland just told me her gas/electricity bill for Nov was 445 euro. Hers is an average 3 bedroom dwelling. That's almost $700 Australian dollars - for one month...Seems very expensive to me....Is this what people are paying in the UK and elsewhere in Europe?

Seems pretty steep.

Fwiw, here's what I am paying in the Seattle area. Big house, 4700 sq ft, so maybe 350 sq m.

November was unusually cold, night time temps often dipping below freezing.

PSE is for gas heat and hot water. Big jump from October. The pending payment was for gas use in November.

Electric, for appliances etc

 

[Steam Flyer]

Our house is much smaller, and has a water-source heat pump. Usually air conditioning is the biggest load thru the summer, sometimes our electric bill goes $250/mo. Winter always less than that.

To be fair, our house is well insulated and among mature trees and we are energy-conscious. Many of out neighbors have complained their electric bills are more than 2X ours.

 

[LeoV]

Maybe we Germans are just used to collective guilt.

yep, that is the difference I make, personal of as society.
West Germany did a great job, and it took decades.
As a neighbor I witnessed that progress.

The difference between West and East Germany with this regard has been described.
Same as North and South Korea. And there are mere examples in the world.
Becoming a democratic country with strong institutions does not come easy and often, Russia had only two shots last century, after ww1 and in the 90's.

For the end of this war, better do not count on the population to rise up, or the oligarchs.

 

[Stingray~]

a water-source heat pump.

What is that? I have a heat pump (electric) but use it only rarely, only for AC.

To be fair, our house is well insulated and among mature trees and we are energy-conscious. Many of out neighbors have complained their electric bills are more than 2X ours.

Ours has dbl-paned windows but from when it was built in 1980, they could be a lot better insulation-wise. The big problem with this place is how the top floor has tall cathedral ceilings throughout, which is where the heat of course rises to. Yes, I could be more energy-conscious, like with the temp settings; a part the electric bill is now for running electric heat in the solarium - something I could do without but spending time in here is a joy, surrounded by snow and an icy lake and forest beyond, so for now I will just suck it up.

I feel bad for folks struggling in Europe and the UK. But can you imagine the hell that millions in Ukraine are trying to endure? I bet some of them would pay almost anything for the power to work!

 

[slug zitski]

What is that? I have a heat pump (electric) but use it only rarely, only for AC.


Ours has dbl-paned windows but from when it was built in 1980, they could be a lot better insulation-wise. The big problem with this place is how the top floor has tall cathedral ceilings throughout, which is where the heat of course rises to. Yes, I could be more energy-conscious, like with the temp settings; a part the electric bill is now for running electric heat in the solarium - something I could do without but spending time in here is a joy, surrounded by snow and an icy lake and forest beyond, so for now I will just suck it up.

I feel bad for folks struggling in Europe and the UK. But can you imagine the hell that millions in Ukraine are trying to endure? I bet some of them would pay almost anything for the power to work!

You made this living hell

“catastrophic losses” “ colossal death toll “

"Typically about 80 percent of our intake who are coming off of the line have never even fired a weapon before,"

think of this as you drive to Starbucks for a coffee

MoA - Ukraine SitRep - Catastrophic Losses, Failing Wonder Weapons, NATO Escalation

www.moonofalabama.org

 

[Steam Flyer]

a water-source heat pump.

What is that? I have a heat pump (electric) but use it only rarely, only for AC.
...

A heat pump like any other; air-source is the most common. Refrigerators, for example, use a special chemical that boils at a very low temperature to remove the heat from inside the fridge, then disperses that heat to the air outside the fridge. Although you can buy water-cooled refrigerators for boats... we have a well that runs water thru our heat pump for the house, works better because water is an efficient thermal conductor. The warmed (or cooled, in winter) water flows over a rock bed into the creek.

 

[Rain Man]

You made this living hell

“catastrophic losses” “ colossal death toll “

"Typically about 80 percent of our intake who are coming off of the line have never even fired a weapon before,"

think of this as you drive to Starbucks for a coffee

MoA - Ukraine SitRep - Catastrophic Losses, Failing Wonder Weapons, NATO Escalation

www.moonofalabama.org

Really? Just imagine if Putin had had a bit too much vodka on February 23, woke up grumpy on the 24th and called the invasion off. How many people, Russian and Ukrainian would still be alive today, and how much infrastructure would not have been destroyed?

It was all the decision of one man, supported by his military commanders, and ultimately a population emasculated by his ruthless authoritarian dictatorship.

I can stand on the street corner in my town and say I love the war in Ukraine, or hate it, it doesn't matter. If I try that in Moscow, I will get 8 years in prison.

And you want us to be sympathetic to Russia? Fuck that.

 

[dogwatch]

I feel bad for folks struggling in Europe and the UK. But can you imagine the hell that millions in Ukraine are trying to endure? I bet some of them would pay almost anything for the power to work!

After a very mild autumn in the UK, winter has very much arrived. There are certainly many who will struggle to pay energy bills including those with a hand-to-mouth existence and also those not well organised to receive the government reliefs that are available. As this is largely driven by world gas prices, even if the UK made nice with Putin, which it won't, it would not make any difference.

 

[Stingray~]

After a very mild autumn in the UK, winter has very much arrived. There are certainly many who will struggle to pay energy bills including those with a hand-to-mouth existence and also those not well organised to receive the government reliefs that are available. As this is largely driven by world gas prices, even if the UK made nice with Putin, which it won't, it would not make any difference.

We have some even worse problems, scattered but significant, with people who are homeless despite Help Wanted signs posted in so many business windows. Seattle and surrounding communities set up shelters for them, especially during winter. The shelters are typically lower-rent hotels they either buy or else rent out for the winter.

 

[Ex Machina]

I know nothing about Kazakhstan except that the mythical Borat hails from there . Seems like they are royally pissed at the Russians and ready to kick off if they need to . Have seen vid of trains supposedly heading to western border with Russia with tanks onboard .

 

[Rain Man]

All the countries in the Russian sphere of influence know Russia's military is stretched in Ukraine and starting a conflict on another front is likely impossible for Putin. Now is the time to take action to remove Russian influence and join the West, just like Sweden and Finland joining NATO.

Putin said he was fine with them joining, because he could do fuck all about it.

 

[Mark_K]

Collective farming and soviet agricultural management was a disaster way beyond its first introduction ....and to suggest it was somehow superior to the USA is pure comedy.
The biggest beneficiaries of Russian collective farming were American farmers in the Mid West.
By 1972, despite the Cold War, the USSR was importing 10 million short tons of American grain. In 1973 their crop failed again and Russia negotiated the largest grain import deal from the US of all time and then exceeded that. Prices for US Grain rose by 30%. Without US farmers there would have been widespread famine and starvation in Russia.

My apologies for letting facts get in the way of your entertaining narrative.

It was under the Soviets. Went like this:

A guy plowing fields with a tractor is no longer responsible for the end product, he is paid simply for plowing his X-acre quota, and rewarded for exceeding his quota. So what level does he set his plow? Shallow as possible.

This shit goes right on through all steps, from sowing to harvesting, and the best way to make a living is to sneak some off on the black market.


All that said, it's not relevant now. Russia became a capitalist country and exports a lot of wheat these days. The entire southern region of Ukraine and Russia is splendid farm land, among the world's best. The lot of the Russian peasant improved markedly throughout Putin's long reign so his popularity is real. Up to this Ukrainian business, of course.

 

[slug zitski]

famine , tragedies …were the result of local resistance, corrupt local officials and most significantly the lack of planned agricultural storage to protect against poor harvest

not the system of collective farms

Agriculture in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kiwing]

Slug , Wiki is a much more believable source. If we can stick to reliable sources the discussion might be more productive?

 

[Mark_K]

famine , tragedies …were the result of local resistance, corrupt local officials and most significantly the lack of planned agricultural storage to protect against poor harvest

not the system of collective farms

Agriculture in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Consider reading the links you post before pontificating about what they say, Just a thought...

 

[Ishmael]

I asked myself the question, "Why are, Russians such fucking losers". Not having the answer, I turned to Google - as you do. Entertaining, if not illuminating.

Russian History Is on Our Side: Putin Will Surely Screw Himself

So the international sanctions aren’t working—don’t worry! If 1,000 years of Russian screw-ups are anything to go by, it won’t be long before Vladimir Putin brings himself down.

www.thedailybeast.com

I really enjoy PJ O'Rourke's writing. Great sense of humour.

 

[Mambo Kings]

You made this living hell

“catastrophic losses” “ colossal death toll “ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ars-to-admit-severe-russian-losses-in-ukraine

Russia's losses are not going to slow down.

"Typically about 80 percent of our intake who are coming off of the line have never even fired a weapon before," https://www.newsweek.com/untrained-mobilized-russian-troops-retreat-hide-forest-ukraine-1757066
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/16/world/europe/russia-draft-ukraine.html The Coffins are already coming. The Toll of Russia's chaotic draft
think of this as you drive to Starbucks for a coffee

I agree. It sounds horrifying to be a Russian conscript .

Russia sends new untrained recruits directly to front line, investigation finds

Russian conscripts mobilized in Russia’s Belgorod Oblast have been sent to the battlefield without any prior training, Russian investigative media outlet iStories reported on Sept. 28.

www.yahoo.com

I dont know what to say Slug.....other than if you want this to change, the media in Russia needs to do some plain talking. The mothers, fathers, siblings of the suffering Russian troops need to speak up and find someone to represent their voice.

 

[Mambo Kings]

Consider reading the links you post before pontificating about what they say, Just a thought...

Thought? You want him to think? I say, that is a bit bold.

 

[phill_nz]

The mothers, fathers, siblings of the suffering Russian troops need to speak up and find someone to represent their voice.

ohh if there was only someone who could come up with an idea and enshrine it in law
that people could say something like the leader is making a huge mistake and not face criminal prosecution for it