Ukraine

Stingray~

Stingray~

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idontwan2know said:
Not a military expert, but I think this threatened encirclement of Ukraine’s eastern forces is a fantasy of guys who draw red lines on maps more than an urgent reality. 

As we have seen in countless recent conflicts, because you have driven twenty miles down a highway doesn’t come close to meaning you control all the territory between that highway and the next well enough to deny passage of the enemy. Hell, it doesn’t even mean that you control all twenty miles you’ve driven down. 
 

The Russian army that cannot encircle Kyiv  less than 100 miles from the Russian border cannot conduct an encirclement of hundreds of square miles in central Ukraine in any real way. At least not in the short-medium term. 
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Agreed. Have heard some 'experts' asked about the map you often see on news sites, with the differently-colored cross-hatched areas and such, commenting that while they may have forces in those areas, the areas themselves are misleading; they don't actually 'control' all that area. It is a more a case of positioning firepower to be able to shell things inside the area, especially UKR military vehicles. That proximity works both ways.

 
I

idontwan2know

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enigmatically2 said:
You don't need complete control to make the encirclement meaningful. If you can control the crossroads and any railway lines (which have been quite significant in this conflict) then you can cut off re-supply (re-supply by air is always problematic and not possible here.

So it was a very real risk, and still exists, albeit less than it was..

Seems like Ukraine are about to get a whole load of new anti-air systems - including some old Soviet systems from the eastern NATO members, but also some Starstreak from UK- those have much bigger range than Stingers and hopefully will give the Russians even more headaches
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The supply line issue is definitely a valid one. The handwringing has been about the possibility of the Ukrainian forces there being encircled and destroyed in detail which doesn’t seem likely to me. I think they’d be able to disperse and break through to the west fairly easily for the foreseeable future. There’s just no reason to do so right now as they’re forcing the Russians to extend their fronts and already buggered supply lines by remaining where they are.

But again, I am just a guy whose read too many books and played too many video games for my own good, so I am probably very wrong. 
 

 
Stingray~

Stingray~

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accnick said:
I am truly disappointed and appalled at your attitude about this.
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Your view and attitude is apparently a lot different if you want to trap or imprison anyone including males into this hell-hole. Here is what appalls me.

Ukraine War: Mariupol hospital an 'image of hell' with dead babies - YouTube

As evident, the f'ing bombs don't care if the they are men, women or children. "Live Free or Die"?? They are trapped and desperate, they have no Live Free option. We need to help get these people, as many as possible, the hell out of it. That needs to be the current #1 priority. That is what you do if Live Free! is what you promote with any honesty. Or Die is not what we should be cheering on..

 
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Varan

Varan

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A Russian oligarch's superyacht is stuck in Norway because no one will sell it fuel

The Ragnar is owned by Russian oligarch Vladimir Strzhalkovsky, a former KGB agent with deep ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin. Onboard amenities include an amphibious ATV and an island.

From npr.org 

 
Keith

Keith

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The traditional coastal waters of the Orca,Grey Wh
Stingray~ said:
Your view and attitude is apparently a lot different if you want to trap or imprison anyone including males into this hell-hole. Here is what appalls me.

Ukraine War: Mariupol hospital an 'image of hell' with dead babies - YouTube

As evident, the f'ing bombs don't care if the they are men, women or children. "Live Free or Die"?? They are trapped and desperate, they have no Live Free option. We need to help get these people, as many as possible, the hell out of it. That needs to be the current #1 priority. That is what you do if Live Free! is what you promote with any honesty. Or Die is not what we should be cheering on..
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Fortunately most Ukrainians understand why it is so important to fight for their freedom and why they are fighting for their peaceful democracy. 

Thankfully NATO, the USA and many other countries are sending the equipment that they can, to help Ukraine defend their freedom and democracy.

There's only one person and one country's military to blame for all this tragic and unnecessary death, Poutine and Russia.

Stopping Poutine stops this war.

 
Stingray~

Stingray~

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Keith said:
Fortunately most Ukrainians understand why it is so important to fight for their freedom and why they are fighting for their peaceful democracy. 

Thankfully NATO, the USA and many other countries are sending the equipment that they can, to help Ukraine defend their freedom and democracy.

There's only one person and one country's military to blame for all this tragic and unnecessary death, Poutine and Russia.

Stopping Poutine stops this war.
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Agree with all that but most people also understand why life is more important to desperate people than the 'freedom' they have been so brutally deprived of. 

I am in agreement so far with US and NATO policy to avoid putting our own forces into this nightmare but damn... Is there no way to go on the offense somehow? Putin is running the whole agenda so far, only UKR is taking the intentional demolition of cities and the massive civilian casualties, it sucks. Even if he withdraws after laying waste to Ukraine he will see it as a win.

 
pusslicker

pusslicker

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Stingray~ said:
Your view and attitude is apparently a lot different if you want to trap or imprison anyone including males into this hell-hole. Here is what appalls me.

Ukraine War: Mariupol hospital an 'image of hell' with dead babies - YouTube

As evident, the f'ing bombs don't care if the they are men, women or children. "Live Free or Die"?? They are trapped and desperate, they have no Live Free option. We need to help get these people, as many as possible, the hell out of it. That needs to be the current #1 priority. That is what you do if Live Free! is what you promote with any honesty. Or Die is not what we should be cheering on..
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Where do you draw the line with this though? When they bust into Czecho, Poland and Slovakia? The Baltic states? Germany? This is as cheap as it is going to get now in Ukraine as far as lives go.

 
G

Gissie

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Keith said:
Fortunately most Ukrainians understand why it is so important to fight for their freedom and why they are fighting for their peaceful democracy. 

Thankfully NATO, the USA and many other countries are sending the equipment that they can, to help Ukraine defend their freedom and democracy.

There's only one person and one country's military to blame for all this tragic and unnecessary death, Poutine and Russia.

Stopping Poutine stops this war.
Click to expand...
It's a pity there wasn't all this outpouring for Syrians to have stayed put and fought for their country.

And the Afghanis. Should have asked them to carry on the good fight as well. Why give refugee status when they should fight on our behalf against the bad guys.

 
R

ro!

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Stingray~ said:
Agree with all that but most people also understand why life is more important to desperate people than the 'freedom' they have been so brutally deprived of. 

I am in agreement so far with US and NATO policy to avoid putting our own forces into this nightmare but damn... Is there no way to go on the offense somehow? Putin is running the whole agenda so far, only UKR is taking the intentional demolition of cities and the massive civilian casualties, it sucks. Even if he withdraws after laying waste to Ukraine he will see it as a win.
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Sundown in the PNW, the Pinot kicks in and spinbot starts his handwringing whilst also upping his post count..it’s a bit quiet on the AC threads at the moment..

putin is killing Russians in Ukraine for the crime of being there, the Ukrainians know their fate if they surrender as you have been advocating since day 1..

 
chesirecat

chesirecat

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enigmatically2 said:
You have to be careful with these assessments because of vastly different cultural norms. That didn't look that appetising to me but may be fine for a typical Chinese soldier. But those norms also mean that using another cultures rations can be problematic.

Can you imagine for example the British army being given a ration pack with no tea or coffee?

The Russians do drink black tea and their MREs normally contain some. So the absence of that could be surprisingly significant. I would suspect that Russia's army is drawn from so many cultures that nothing would satisfy all, but many would object to those Chinese rations.

But if they have asked China for rations it does suggest how far through the war-stores they are. WIth little movement they will have exhausted all they can loot and pillage like an army of locusts. Unlike locusts they can't move- unless of course they retreat.

This is where all the truisms about "amateurs talking strategy, professionals talking logistics"; or "armies marching on their stomachs" start to really hit
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Actually my angle, which didn't explain,  was more on quality control. China is not noted for quality control plus one could and I emphasis could, reason MRE's out to the lowest bidder and deep rooted corruption is not unknown.

"Green" meat before cooked is sort of OK if in survival mode, but green meat after being cooked in something else.

Good points re locusts etc, there were shots of a captured RU catering wagon and aside from semi rotting vegetables the revolting state of the fryer was an education.

PS. An early Ukrainian MRE was a bit dire, the guy ended up in hospital.

 
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Fiji Bitter

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In the wild.
‘Miraculous’ Survivors Made It Into Destroyed Mariupol Drama Theater’s Bomb Shelter Before Russian Strike Hit


https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-destroys-mariupol-drama-theater-where-a-1000-civilians-were-sheltering-ukraine-officials-say

ukraine-theater-beforeafter-HORIZONTAL_zpufai.jpg

 
Steam Flyer

Steam Flyer

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Gissie said:
It's a pity there wasn't all this outpouring for Syrians to have stayed put and fought for their country.

And the Afghanis. Should have asked them to carry on the good fight as well. Why give refugee status when they should fight on our behalf against the bad guys.
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Yeah, because it really doesn't matter to THEM, does it? It's "fighting on our behalf."

Dumbass

- DSK

 
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