enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Economy is going well when you have to choose between the Iran, NK and Cuban model
Ukraine
- Thread starter dogwatch
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Mark_K
Super Anarchist
Then you've missed my point. Among the little things we take for granted is strongly and honestly enforced contract laws. That system took a long time to establish and work most of the bugs out of. Thinking it was a simple matter was the mistake the Wall Street types made in the Russia of the 90s, and by that drunken sot Yeltsin. A government that can save capitalism both from and for the capitalists is not a simple thing to create or describe, nosireebob.It's a burgernomics style use of a single parameter, trading simplicity for accuracy.
Not to be taken too seriously but surprisingly useful.
(try and guess the parameter before you google it)
AnIdiot
Sock
I got your point. I just think you're understating how hard it is, how far there is to go and how easy it is to slide back...
Mambo Kings
Super Anarchist
A list that includes Iceland and Ireland clearly does not place much weight on a robust financial system.It's a burgernomics style use of a single parameter, trading simplicity for accuracy.
Not to be taken too seriously but surprisingly useful.
(try and guess the parameter before you google it
Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
That was in itself a valid discussion and rather ironic too. A bit like discussing what is the best way to survive a suicide attempt, jumping off a building or hanging yourself, after a failed onslaught.
And btw, Cuba is the odd one out in most respects. For one they kicked a cruel dictator and his American mafia out, to start with, but that is for PA, and others to discuss.
chesirecat
Super Anarchist
And just like that. One armoured brigade anywhere in Europe.
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estarzinger
Super Anarchist
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On the tank discussion, the Leopard has not had a huge amount of combat experience . . . but:
"In late 2016, Turkey deployed its 2nd Armored Brigade to its border with Syria. The brigade, armed with Leopard 2 A4 tanks, was engaged by Islamic State forces and lost ten Leopard 2s. According to The National Interest, Turkey lost “five reportedly by antitank missiles, two by mines or improvised explosive devices (IEDs), one to rocket or mortar fire, and the others to more ambiguous causes.”
These were relatively heavy losses to irregular forces. These tanks were (apparently) deployed to the rear of assaulting infantry as mobile gun support, but ISIS still managed to target them. Later versions of the Leopard were up-armored (edit: it appears Germany will provide the up-armored A6, while most other countries will supply the A4 variant).
"In late 2016, Turkey deployed its 2nd Armored Brigade to its border with Syria. The brigade, armed with Leopard 2 A4 tanks, was engaged by Islamic State forces and lost ten Leopard 2s. According to The National Interest, Turkey lost “five reportedly by antitank missiles, two by mines or improvised explosive devices (IEDs), one to rocket or mortar fire, and the others to more ambiguous causes.”
These were relatively heavy losses to irregular forces. These tanks were (apparently) deployed to the rear of assaulting infantry as mobile gun support, but ISIS still managed to target them. Later versions of the Leopard were up-armored (edit: it appears Germany will provide the up-armored A6, while most other countries will supply the A4 variant).
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dogwatch
Super Anarchist
Keith
Super Anarchist
estarzinger
Super Anarchist
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Tanks vs Drones in Armenian conflict (hint: drones 'won')
idk, not an expert, don't even stay at holiday inn - my reading is most experts suggest:
(1) tanks still very valuable 'if used properly', but 'properly' seems to require high skill/coordination and supporting assets.
(2) Modern conflict is/will be extremely destructive, and even 'used properly' one should expect high losses in a high-intensity modern near-peer conflict.
(3) American stye air supremacy changes essentially all military equations
idk, not an expert, don't even stay at holiday inn - my reading is most experts suggest:
(1) tanks still very valuable 'if used properly', but 'properly' seems to require high skill/coordination and supporting assets.
(2) Modern conflict is/will be extremely destructive, and even 'used properly' one should expect high losses in a high-intensity modern near-peer conflict.
(3) American stye air supremacy changes essentially all military equations
Dervish
Anarchist
The Leopard 2 and M1 Abrams versions played “leap frog” since introduction, with the Leopard often leading in enhanced fire control systems.
Leopard 2A6 has substantial upgrades, notably crew safety.
en.wikipedia.org
Leopard 2A6 has substantial upgrades, notably crew safety.
Leopard 2 - Wikipedia
Mambo Kings
Super Anarchist
@Dervish is the right person to ask about armored cavalry and whether tanks still have a place in modern warfare.
Since the Ukrainians have first hand experience of what is working and what is not, and they are expressing a desire for a lot of tanks, I draw some conclusions from that.
enigmatically2
Super Anarchist
Latest Russian TV rant from Solyvov. Long but worth watching. They are rattled and worried that these tanks will be met only by Mobiks armed with Kalashnikovs. The fact that all these trained artillerymen anti-tanks specialists are being sent to the infantry does suggest RU is running out of heavy weapons.
As for tanks, they are vulnerable if not combined with arty and infantry, they are vulnerable to air power, they are vulnerable to infantry with advanced anti-tank weapons and they are vulnerable if sent down constrained roads, eg in urban areas.
It appears as though RU do not have the number of AT weapons or aircraft to counter them. So it comes down to whether UKr uses them well. We have been training them, they are showing great tactical awareness in most cases, and we are giving them lots more artillery and IFVs at the same time. So as a fist to punch through the lines in key places I am hopeful
As for tanks, they are vulnerable if not combined with arty and infantry, they are vulnerable to air power, they are vulnerable to infantry with advanced anti-tank weapons and they are vulnerable if sent down constrained roads, eg in urban areas.
It appears as though RU do not have the number of AT weapons or aircraft to counter them. So it comes down to whether UKr uses them well. We have been training them, they are showing great tactical awareness in most cases, and we are giving them lots more artillery and IFVs at the same time. So as a fist to punch through the lines in key places I am hopeful
Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
Remember UKR forces just retreated from Soldar. Predicting doom and gloom for Russian military has been very popular in the media since last March when their big fail was a pleasant surprise.
I don't know what the tactical issues are but it seems that UKR can succeed and they are great innovators. If they want tanks, I trust that they know why they want them and have a plan to put them to good use.
Second third this
I don't know what the tactical issues are but it seems that UKR can succeed and they are great innovators. If they want tanks, I trust that they know why they want them and have a plan to put them to good use.
Yikes, with the hot-head calls for nuclear war! Geez….
Thanks, watched the whole thing too. They seem to think the West’s goal is not in defending UKR from RU’s attack, but to also attack into RU.
They are going to have to attack into RU because that's where they are launching from. Asking the Ukrainians to stop shooting at the border is bullshit.
