Ukraine

[Fiji Bitter]

Also do not forget it was the advice of all naval commanders of the time to sink it

All naval commanders, oh yes, I forgot about that. 😂

And did you forget that an Argie submarine could easily have sunk the patrol vessel HMS Endurance, but that the advice of all their commanders at the time was NOT to attack it, because only a few months earlier they had been partying together at their base in Mar del Plata. True humane gentlemen, those Argie commanders.

We are entering the land of whataboutery. Dogwatch out.

Better to ask half the population of one of your own UK countries, then a friend of yours who knew Thatcher well.
And nothing to do with Whataboutism, but all with possible war crimes.
Anyway, I was only pointing out that Maggie was not much of an angel, and that set you guys off straight into PA territory.
Back to the Ukraine now.

 

[Dervish]

not sure it was that justified, guiltless, cut and dried
they knew the crew were mostly trainees .. the ships role was as a training ship
they had shadowed it for weeks
they could have carried on shadowing it as it was in a no threat position and 100s of ks away from being in any sort of threat position
it was a badly maintained ww2 battler of little use in that conflict outside 20 miles from a uk ship or landing
the chances of it getting inside 20 miles of a uk ship or landing were as close to zero without actually being zero as you could get

it was legal .. it achieved no military aim that would be a gain in that war and it saved zero lives

same leader i always want .. one that knows which are the correct decisions and which are just for show

So why were they there: water skiing?

This is counter-factual history. The Argentinian command are the ones culpable.

 

[Keith]

 

[Keith]

 

[Keith]

 

[Horn Rock]

Poop in your soup.... Really losing it over the ICC arrest warrant.

 

[Keith]

 

[Keith]

 

[Keith]

 

[Mark_K]

Of course there will be no negotiated settlement with pootin.
The point I make is from what Arty said, the lines may not be the Feb 24 lines, but lines that make sense to construct a many year defense along. Which was my first post.
You really don't hear well.

I suspect you're confused, and that confusion is understandable. The vid you posted is a different Arty Green vid from the one I am referring to. Leo posted a couple of him, that was the second, and I have a different take on what makes those lines defensible than you do.

There had been a lot of trench digging and whatnot along those lines between 2014 and 2022. I'm pretty sure he's referring to that, and it's the line between the peoples who've been subjected to 8 years of propaganda and those who haven't.

Time will tell how this ends. Do not be utterly confident it won't be with an agreement. It's actually the most likely scenario as it currently seems neither side can wipe out the other.

 

[barfy]

I suspect you're confused, and that confusion is understandable. The vid you posted is a different Arty Green vid from the one I am referring to. Leo posted a couple of him, that was the second, and I have a different take on what makes those lines defensible than you do.

There had been a lot of trench digging and whatnot along those lines between 2014 and 2022. I'm pretty sure he's referring to that, and it's the line between the peoples who've been subjected to 8 years of propaganda and those who haven't.

Time will tell how this ends. Do not be utterly confident it won't be with an agreement. It's actually the most likely scenario as it currently seems neither side can wipe out the other.

I have watched all the videos interviewing Arty Green, and I heard and remembered what he had said about the end game.
As for defensive lines, Arty mentioned geographical lines, and I believe trench lines and concrete dragons teeth are no huge impediment to a modern combined force.
There are, as you say, challenges with the populace of the territories that have been occupied and repopulated. The demographics in those areas may be changing as pressure from the AFU increases, time will tell.
I'm not utterly confident there will be no negotiated settlement and I hope for a cessation of this horrible meatgrinder, but I'm 90% confident that there will be no settlement reached with pootin, as I said in all of my posts. He was all in last year, and has doubled down. A strategy shared with leaders who share the same "management" tactics as pootin.

 

[Sailbydate]

Poop in your soup.... Really losing it over the ICC arrest warrant.

Solovyov's mate wants the iron curtain drawn across again. She's very special, this one.

 

[Rain Man]

the argie surface navy never had the capabilities of going into close quarters with the rn
it was never going to happen
pretending it might have will always be just pretending it might have

who wanted it was not the point .. neither was anything thatcher had to do with it
'
my argument was based solely on was it justified and did it achieve anything

the answer remains no and no

That ship should never have left port if it was full of trainees. Let's get back to discussing Ukraine.

 

[Mark_K]

I have watched all the videos interviewing Arty Green, and I heard and remembered what he had said about the end game.
As for defensive lines, Arty mentioned geographical lines, and I believe trench lines and concrete dragons teeth are no huge impediment to a modern combined force.
There are, as you say, challenges with the populace of the territories that have been occupied and repopulated. The demographics in those areas may be changing as pressure from the AFU increases, time will tell.
I'm not utterly confident there will be no negotiated settlement and I hope for a cessation of this horrible meatgrinder, but I'm 90% confident that there will be no settlement reached with pootin, as I said in all of my posts. He was all in last year, and has doubled down. A strategy shared with leaders who share the same "management" tactics as pootin.

So how will this end?

 

[phill_nz]

So why were they there: water skiing?

This is counter-factual history. The Argentinian command are the ones culpable.

i am not privy to what they were doing or why .. apart from nothing and the usual
ships go to sea and trainees train

your counter counter factual statement has been countered

 

[phill_nz]

That ship should never have left port if it was full of trainees. Let's get back to discussing Ukraine.

training ships tend to be full of trainees .. not sure why .. must be some sort of coincidence thing
training ships go to sea to train trainees

 

[Monkey]

I’m still confused. Was it Argentina or the British that invaded Ukraine?

 

[Kiwing]

Demilitarized zone between along the river someone suggested with a yellow line, Ukraine in NATO, or NATO guaranteed.

My big problem is Crimea and the Russian military harbour base. Maybe Mariupol or Sevastopol not both?

 

[phill_nz]

It is well documented that the ARA were attempting a pincer attack on the RN. So what you have written is clearly bollocks. It is true that attack had been cancelled by the time of the sinking (due to bad weather preventing the ARA carrier launching aircraft), but it is not clear that the RN knew that, nor would it prevent them initiating a new attack when weather improved.

It is bizarre to suggest that in a major naval war there are not sound military reasons for sinking the enemy flagship if the opportunity arises

Anyway, to paraphrase Peter Sellers, this is the war room, we shouldn't fight here. So I'm out

a pincer attack .. really useful for crunchies and sounds great on news reels to the public
not a lot of tactical advantage naval wise
you used to get a benefit pre ww2 by being able to more accurately call each others shot but fc radar has sort of thrown that role away and missiles sort of made it totally redundant .. and as we have already said any surface engagement in this war was going to be primarily missile based ... a situation the argentinians could not counter
and it was always at the expense of allowing the enemy to use the guns they could not normally fire because they are in an A arc blind spot

the poms sinking the belgrano made no more more difference than if the argentines had sunk hms victory

 

[phill_nz]

I’m still confused. Was it Argentina or the British that invaded Ukraine?

the british
the argentines have never been to crimea