Super Anarchist
So how will this end?
I believe with internal disruption in Russia, territorial gains by Ukraine, and maybe both at once. Then a settlement with both sides making concessions.
What is your current idea for an end to this bloody war?


Boston, PRM
i am not privy to what they were doing or why .. apart from nothing and the usual
ships go to sea and trainees train

your counter counter factual statement has been countered
Belgrano was a 180 meter Brooklyn Class Cruiser with 15 6” guns. More firepower and up to 6” thick armor that would defeat most modern anti ship missiles.

“Through a message passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government nine days before the sinking, the UK made clear that it no longer considered the 200 mile exclusion zone as the limit of its military action.

On 1 May 1982, Admiral Juan Lombardo ordered all Argentine naval units to seek out the British task force around the Falklands and launch a "massive attack" the following day.

In 2003, the ship's captain Hector Bonzo confirmed that General Belgrano had actually been manoeuvering, not "sailing away" from the exclusion zone.”

Just goes to show: invade other countries lands, bad things happen. If Argentina had stayed home no one would have died.


Super Anarchist
a pincer attack .. really useful for crunchies and sounds great on news reels to the public
not a lot of tactical advantage naval wise
you used to get a benefit pre ww2 by being able to more accurately call each others shot but fc radar has sort of thrown that role away and missiles sort of made it totally redundant .. and as we have already said any surface engagement in this war was going to be primarily missile based ... a situation the argentinians could not counter
and it was always at the expense of allowing the enemy to use the guns they could not normally fire because they are in an A arc blind spot

the poms sinking the belgrano made no more more difference than if the argentines had sunk hms victory
You know a lot less than you think. A pincer movement is a valid tactic in this case. Which is why the ARA were formed into 2 task groups. The composition of which is also well documented. You don't send a training ship as part of a task force in war time out to sea. Unless of course you are throwing everything you have.
And the effectiveness of Exocet against a ship armed with AAW missiles, escorted by Aaw ships and with more compartmentalisation (due to size) than typical warships of that era was not known.

I suspect the Belgrano seemed less of a threat from Auckland harbour than it did from the south Atlantic


Super Anarchist
Already said it, and the surprising thing is you agree, it is most likely going to be resolved with a negotiated settlement.
I just don't think a settlement is possible with pootin. And I don't think the 2022 borders will be where this stops.

P Flados

North Carolina
Anyone postulating outcomes at this point is probably also hoping for timely resolution. I could easily see this thing going on for more than a few years.

The USA has done some long term conflicts in the past. Some EU support may fade, but those that stay in the game will be enough along with USA support. A long term war will be hell for Ukraine, but I bet they will keep at it as long as we (reasonable minded USA/EU/AUS types) can keep the idiots from taking over.

Russia needs to worry that eventually Ukraine will get or start building longer range and harder hitting drones/missiles. Crimea and the Russian border oblasts become very vulnerable in this context.


Super Anarchist
I agree.
Poo tin's word is not worth the paper it is written on.
My thoughts on the boundaries I have already posted.
That was my yellow line sketch back there a while wingey.
Edit: at the start of my conversation with Markey.

Latest posts