Ultime / G-Class Development

GauchoGreg

Super Anarchist
5,169
161
Ready to race:

Spindrift 2 (40m)

Idec Sport (31.5m)

Macif (30m)

Sodebo (31m)

Actual (Former Sodebo, 31m)

Qingdau (Former Idec, 29.7m)

In Development

Banque Populaire IX (31.5m, VPLP / CDK) - 2017 Launch

Gitana XVII (31-35m, Verdier / Multiplast) - 2017 Launch

Rumors

Lending Club

SailRocket

Anyway, I have been trying to find anything new on BPIX and Gitana XVII, as it has been quiet for a while, and found a vid that came out a couple weeks ago on Gitana's plans for 2016, and it has a bit on their new Ultim/G-class boat, still indicating more than 30 meters, foil development, but not much else. See below. Not much to be found for BPIV, or Lending Tree or SailRocket, for that matter (Paul has been quiet).


 
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3to1

Super Anarchist
haven't been checking out g-class stuff much, but Macif strikes me as a very polished design that has been well executed. won TGV. not sure about this, but I think they went light and simple, just not to the degree that IDEC did with that small rig during the recent jules vern.

 
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GauchoGreg

Super Anarchist
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Didn't they make an upper waterline limit that excludes Spindrift 2 from this class?
From Ultime circuit, but I'm not limiting my discussion to the Ultime for this discussion as I prefer crewed racing, anyway, and we know that at least Gitana is being planned for both crewed and solo racing. It is still not sure that the Ultime will be the end-all, be-all, anyway, and I personally dislike the limits. They should just leave it open. The folks that have sailed these boats have already indicated that Spindrift is bigger than you want for single-handed sailing, and this past Jules Verne showed that the size may not be as big of an advantaged as it used to be, and that will only likely be more the case as foiling becomes a bigger factor. Might as well leave the rules more open.

 

3to1

Super Anarchist
curious about these giant tris, even with C-boards (dynamic ama lift), how hard are these to send down the mine, and is that a future design priority because the boats can get sketchy in big seas?

 
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GauchoGreg

Super Anarchist
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curious about these giant tris, even with C-boards (dynamic ama lift), how hard are these to send down the mine, and is that a future design priority because the boats can get sketchy in big seas?
What? Confusing post.

 

3to1

Super Anarchist
seemed worthy of a nobel prize last night when I wrote it baked. was wondering if all this modern design has significantly reduced the danger of pitchpoling in rough conditions. if not, might this area be a design focus?

 

jonas a

Super Anarchist
yeah,maybe a peace prize :)

guess increased bow volume at the waterline, reduced width / length ratio has made the modern tris less likely to pitch pole compared to eg Orma 60's. Also at least on monohulls the mast has been moved aft quite a bit, not sure on multis. And generally size do matter. 100 footers need quite rough weather to pitch pole.

 

GauchoGreg

Super Anarchist
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seemed worthy of a nobel prize last night when I wrote it baked. was wondering if all this modern design has significantly reduced the danger of pitchpoling in rough conditions. if not, might this area be a design focus?

I have yet to hear of any situations Spindrift (BPV) has been in close to a pitchpole. Design concept on that boat was to make a big boat that was relatively conservative, very safe and dependable. It has been that. Now, if the boats can just keep from crashing into crap out on a trip around the world, it will be much better.

 

surlepont

Member
153
3
Lyon, France
According to a new Voiles & Voiliers article (http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/course-regate/multicoques-ultime-le-point-ultime/), the new Gitana will be a 33m-long trimaran and thus not be part of the Collectif Ultim. Reason for this was given in the "Tip & Shaft" weekly newsletter (#3, of Dec 11, 2015): Gitana wanted to continue its path taken to make the big multis fly. However, they considered the collectif's ban on servo-controlled (I hope I translated "asservissement" correctly in this context…) adjustments of the appendices, including the foils, not going in the right direction. And apparently during the Collectif's annual meeting in January there was no majority of the votes in favor of changing these rules, so the Gitana Team decided to continue on its own.

 

jonas a

Super Anarchist
So the bottom line is that they want the foils to be controlled automatically from a central unit without human intervention...interesting... But who are they gonna race against if no one is interested to follow on their path?

 

oioi

Super Anarchist
1,064
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So the bottom line is that they want the foils to be controlled automatically from a central unit without human intervention...interesting... But who are they gonna race against if no one is interested to follow on their path?
the clock

But are you not going to need a big motor and loads of fuel to constantly move foils going round the world?

 

jonas a

Super Anarchist
The clock of course, but does the JV rules allow this kind of system? Maybe they should call it "the round the world race in memory of Phileas Fogg instead"

I guess if you have a dynamic system that is constantly calculating and changing the foil trim, then it could get complicated. The other possibility is that there are some boundary values wrt eg speed that have to be broken before the foils start moving around

 

GauchoGreg

Super Anarchist
5,169
161
According to a new Voiles & Voiliers article (http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/course-regate/multicoques-ultime-le-point-ultime/), the new Gitana will be a 33m-long trimaran and thus not be part of the Collectif Ultim. Reason for this was given in the "Tip & Shaft" weekly newsletter (#3, of Dec 11, 2015): Gitana wanted to continue its path taken to make the big multis fly. However, they considered the collectif's ban on servo-controlled (I hope I translated "asservissement" correctly in this context…) adjustments of the appendices, including the foils, not going in the right direction. And apparently during the Collectif's annual meeting in January there was no majority of the votes in favor of changing these rules, so the Gitana Team decided to continue on its own.
I'm glad to hear they told the collective to blow. Much rather have more open designs, and particularly happy to not have limits that may reduce a boat's ability to perform well with crews just so they can compete well single-handed.

 
According to a new Voiles & Voiliers article (http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/course-regate/multicoques-ultime-le-point-ultime/), the new Gitana will be a 33m-long trimaran and thus not be part of the Collectif Ultim. Reason for this was given in the "Tip & Shaft" weekly newsletter (#3, of Dec 11, 2015): Gitana wanted to continue its path taken to make the big multis fly. However, they considered the collectif's ban on servo-controlled (I hope I translated "asservissement" correctly in this context) adjustments of the appendices, including the foils, not going in the right direction. And apparently during the Collectif's annual meeting in January there was no majority of the votes in favor of changing these rules, so the Gitana Team decided to continue on its own.
I'm glad to hear they told the collective to blow. Much rather have more open designs, and particularly happy to not have limits that may reduce a boat's ability to perform well with crews just so they can compete well single-handed.
100% agree. the collective is a farce, without any transparency.anyway, gitana team feedback was there is no way of flying and foiling an ultim without servo-controlled.

link to their experience, it seems complete good sense.

 

GauchoGreg

Super Anarchist
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so that means a boat that has to carry a lot of fuel?
Or different ways to generate electricity.... hydrogenerators I guess.
Seems there should be no problem generating enough power by hydrogenerators with the power these boats generate to operate servos. The boat's own kinetic energy used to charge batteries, with that energy used to manipulate servos for trim, not propulsion, would seem to be totally within the spirit of things. How would that be any different than autopilot?

 
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