Ultime / G-Class Development

[huey 2]

https://www.scanvoile.com/2022/04/reprise-pour-actual-ultim-3-yves-le.html#.Ylny_dNBzOR

 

[yl75]

Point of view of JEAN-LUC DENÉCHAU, president of the French Sailing Federation on the matter in the last tip&shaft :

Among these 138, there will be some Ultims, what is the feeling of the president of the federation about this conflict which has pitted François Gabart's team against the Ultim 32/23 class for several months?
A federation president is here to for the greater good and the wider organisation so when I saw at the beginning of the year that this conflict was still going on, I proposed to organize a mediation so that people could talk to each other, which was done [on 16 February during a meeting bringing together all the boat owners, Editor's note]. There have since been other meetings with all of the owners, the negotiation is difficult, positions are sometimes frozen but there has also been progress. Right now I would say that there is a willingness to pause in the negotiations, I hope that everyone is still keen to continue debating and discussing so that everyone can continue to race in good conditions within this Ultim class.

"To join a class,
you have to accept its rules"

The Ultim 32/23 class had recourse to World Sailing, does the international federation have a say on such a subject?
From a purely regulatory point of view, World Sailing, which enacts and updates the OSR [international Offshore Special Regulations rules], can respond to requests for interpretation, but it remains an interpretation which is of a general nature in relation to a question posed. A federation, whether national or international, does not have the mandate to certify a boat. The crux of the problem revolves around this famous rule 3.11 and it is therefore up to the class, via its measurer and its monitoring committee, to solve it, because the certificate of conformity of a boat is issued by the class.

In this case, the supervisory committee issued a favorable opinion which was not followed, did the class not respect its rules?
We can't say that: each class has its own mode of operation and within the Ultim class, the supervisory committee has an advisory role. So it gives an opinion, then there is a vote by the office or the board of directors on this opinion.

Does this conflict raise a problem of governance within this class?
Everyone can make their own observations; a class is an association which enacts its own statutes, its rules of procedure, its mode of decision-making and monitoring, to ensure that its members work and race together, even if at this level, the game undoubtedly has another dimension. So to join, you have to accept these rules.

https://mailchi.mp/tipandshaft/n168-jean-luc-denchau-president-of-french-sailing-federation-france-has-the-potential-to-be-in-the-hunt-in-almost-all-olympic-classes?e=bb6a1198ac

Note : that news letter also mentions a possible French project for the next America Cup.

 

[yl75]

Coville now says he has nothing to say about it in below video :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/skipper/thomas-coville/video-spi-ouest-france-sodebo-ultim-3-francois-gabart-3-questions-a-thomas-coville-fe088f2e-bce0-11ec-a567-e86cf18d060a

"The judges/referees should decide"

A bit of hypocrisy to say the least ...

 

[TPG]

Coville now says he has nothing to say about it in below video :

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/skipper/thomas-coville/video-spi-ouest-france-sodebo-ultim-3-francois-gabart-3-questions-a-thomas-coville-fe088f2e-bce0-11ec-a567-e86cf18d060a

"The judges/referees should decide"

A bit of hypocrisy to say the least ...

So you cried about his opinion and claimed he was a "mouthpiece for Sodebo" now you're crying he isn't making any further statements. Might want to brush up on your english because you seem to not know what "hypocrisy" means.

 

[yl75]

So you cried about his opinion and claimed he was a "mouthpiece for Sodebo" now you're crying he isn't making any further statements. 

No, in the video he is saying something like "I have no opinion on the matter, let the judges do their job", when clearly he has an opinion on the matter, and expressed it before (comparing Gabart to Djokovic for instance, saying his position is untenable)

 

[TPG]

No, in the video he is saying something like "I have no opinion on the matter, let the judges do their job", when clearly he has an opinion on the matter, and expressed it before (comparing Gabart to Djokovic for instance, saying his position is untenable)

He made his point earlier and no longer has any interest in discussing it further is what he meant. Which is pretty on script for Charles (and Rothschild).

 

[vokstar]

Ok so I've ripped the scab off a few and done some day drinking, so this might not make much sense. But since the boats seem to spend a lot of time managing their speed aka slowing down and what seems to stop them making an attempt at breaking records is hitting something in the water, would it be worthwhile to have a sacrificial daggerboard for the want of a better name for it, on all three hulls that might deflect things way from the bits that matter like the foils and rudder? If it was standardised then could carry a spare or if one or more is busted could put them in a place that might be more vulnerable. 

 

[Laurent]

OK, so can somebody confirm which organization can make the final decision on whether or not François Gabart's boat is compliant to the rules? My understanding is that it has to be the Ultim Class organization, not the French sailing federation, not any other international sailing organization.

Did I get that correctly? 

And then can they appeal the decision if not in their favor? And to whom???

Last but not least, is there a timeline when this has to be decided or could it run to the day before the start of the Route du Rhum???

Please enlighten me...

 

[Jean-Baptiste]

OK, so can somebody confirm which organization can make the final decision on whether or not François Gabart's boat is compliant to the rules? My understanding is that it has to be the Ultim Class organization, not the French sailing federation, not any other international sailing organization.

Did I get that correctly? 

And then can they appeal the decision if not in their favor? And to whom???

Last but not least, is there a timeline when this has to be decided or could it run to the day before the start of the Route du Rhum???

Please enlighten me...

François Gabart can register for the Route du Rhum (deadline March 31), but he can only take the start if he presents a certificate of gauge conformity, issued by the Ultim class, one month before November 6. “We want to participate in the Route du Rhum, we are going to register”assures the skipper.

So 6 October, 2022 and the class would seem to have final authority.

 

[Jean-Baptiste]

https://www.adonnante.com/54215-course-au-large-records-ultime-32-23-finistere-atlantique-2022-des-territoires-engages/

Be interesting to see if they allow Gabart to participate, if so I would think positive towards sailing in Rhum.

 

[F18 Sailor]

Ok so I've ripped the scab off a few and done some day drinking, so this might not make much sense. But since the boats seem to spend a lot of time managing their speed aka slowing down and what seems to stop them making an attempt at breaking records is hitting something in the water, would it be worthwhile to have a sacrificial daggerboard for the want of a better name for it, on all three hulls that might deflect things way from the bits that matter like the foils and rudder? If it was standardised then could carry a spare or if one or more is busted could put them in a place that might be more vulnerable. 

No way to make that work. First, you’re adding an appendage which completely screws up the lateral balance of the boat. Forgetting that for a second, once said board snaps, what do you think it’s going to hit? My guess is the rudder. Next issue-drag, these boats are doing absolutely everything to remove it, adding an appendage that isn’t helping you sail faster or generate power is a no-go item.

UFO collisions are certainly a major concern for the teams. Sensors are the solution, but also in there infancy. Best to have something at the top of the rig, lightweight, that can alert the autopilot and make a course correction before it’s too late. OSCAR is one such system, I’m sure others have been thought of.

The other concern is structural failure. Without going back in time, I would bet half the current generation of Ultim board failures have been structural, mostly due to the foil experiencing cavitation. The other half might have been UFO’s.

 

[yl75]

François Gabart can register for the Route du Rhum (deadline March 31), but he can only take the start if he presents a certificate of gauge conformity, issued by the Ultim class, one month before November 6. “We want to participate in the Route du Rhum, we are going to register”assures the skipper.

So 6 October, 2022 and the class would seem to have final authority.

Yes he has already registered :

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/route-du-rhum/route-du-rhum-pour-gabart-ce-n-est-pas-a-l-organisateur-de-trancher-06-04-2022-12974946.php

And Joyon is in the same position in fact, except that he would have no problem to be registered by the Ultim class.

Serious mess ..

 

[Jean-Baptiste]

iDEC Sport back in the water @ Vannes

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/skipper/francis-joyon/en-images-francis-joyon-a-remis-a-l-eau-idec-sport-son-maxi-trimaran-vainqueur-de-la-route-du-rhum-9ea39d52-c79f-11ec-b486-9552f9f8b4a2?utm_source=sendinblue_vv_newsletter-voilesetvoiliers&mgo_eu=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e&mgo_l=0vJ5_F5IRqqlH3iKIl7M1Q.18.2&utm_content=20220430&utm_campaign=vv_newsletter-voilesetvoiliers&utm_medium=email&utm_term=856001&vid=4466064&mediego_euid=4466064

Victory to Voiles Ouest for longest URL!

 

[Son of a Sailor]

iDEC Sport back in the water @ Vannes

https://voilesetvoiliers.ouest-france.fr/skipper/francis-joyon/en-images-francis-joyon-a-remis-a-l-eau-idec-sport-son-maxi-trimaran-vainqueur-de-la-route-du-rhum-9ea39d52-c79f-11ec-b486-9552f9f8b4a2?utm_source=sendinblue_vv_newsletter-voilesetvoiliers&mgo_eu=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e&mgo_l=0vJ5_F5IRqqlH3iKIl7M1Q.18.2&utm_content=20220430&utm_campaign=vv_newsletter-voilesetvoiliers&utm_medium=email&utm_term=856001&vid=4466064&mediego_euid=4466064

Victory to Voiles Ouest for longest URL!

 

[eastern motors]

Yes he has already registered :

https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/route-du-rhum/route-du-rhum-pour-gabart-ce-n-est-pas-a-l-organisateur-de-trancher-06-04-2022-12974946.php

And Joyon is in the same position in fact, except that he would have no problem to be registered by the Ultim class.

Serious mess ..

That race is too big and too important to the sponsors not to do.  I think he'll start an hour later or similar if they don't allow him in the class.

 

[Jean-Baptiste]

That race is too big and too important to the sponsors not to do.  I think he'll start an hour later or similar if they don't allow him in the class.

Quite unlikely, insurance difficult, safety arrangements difficult and doing so would likely preclude ever being accepted by the class. Better to wait and have a go at the Jules Verne or a transatlantic record.

Hopefully they come to equitable solution. Current situation reflects poorly on all.

 

[furler49]

That race is too big and too important to the sponsors not to do.  I think he'll start an hour later or similar if they don't allow him in the class.

No chance will he start an hour later. As @Jean-Baptiste says the ramifications would be far reaching and more than that Francois understands he's not bigger than the sport. 

It will be expensive and perhaps ugly behind the scenes but I am 100% that he starts as an Ultim. 

 

[DickDastardly]

UFO collisions are certainly a major concern for the teams. Sensors are the solution, but also in there infancy. Best to have something at the top of the rig, lightweight, that can alert the autopilot and make a course correction before it’s too late. OSCAR is one such system, I’m sure others have been thought of.

UFO collisions are a major issue for all high speed offshore boats.  Recent generations of boats are way more prone to serious damage form UFOs than older boats given their higher speeds and reliance on complex appendage configurations.  I believe from reports I've read that in the recent accident involving a 52 foot mono with a DSS foil the boat was only doing about 8 knots when it hit the UFO.  7 or 8 tonne boat at 8 knots and it's curtains.  Compare that level of kinetic energy with an 18 tonne boat at 35 knots.  Ke = 1/2 x M x V^2 and crunch the numbers, over 40 times the energy to dissipate in a collision.

Sensors are an answer but detecting an object at a turbulent air/water interface in time to avoid it will challenge sensor technology and systems for a long while.  Detecting objects just under the water surface will too.  Bring on the challenges, but accept that there will be plenty of serious accidents in the meanwhile.

 

[DtM]

At those high speeds the UFO does not have to be very large to cause massive damage to a fragile and complex appendage. Detection is very difficult. 

 

[explenture]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CdaiLVyriSq/

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