Untold: "The Race of the Century" documentary on Netflix

Frogman56

Anarchist
582
119
Sydney
Cmon guys....

The click bait called 'Untold Story' is just that... 'click bait'...

Just on a couple of key issues:

1. Benny L hated Bertrand, probably for good reason.
2. The keel winglets and bulb enabled lower CG and higher RM under the restricive draft rule. The endplate effects probably materially reduced induced drag
3. The light and minimum WL design enabled (relatively) good SA:WS
4. Dennis went the wrong way down the last run - thicker boundary layer with rougher water near the spectator fleet. And set the wrong spinnaker for the TWS and water roughness, as well.
5. Statistically. the AII team had a predicted gain on that run of ~ 40 secomds, from their previous racing against Liberty.
6. Whilst Peter van Oosanen was incredibly important to the tank and numerical modelling work, Ben L and his guys made every final design decision.
7. Post Cup simulation for downwind, including keel wings with typical heave and pitch, saw positive results versus lower wetted surface design with conventional keel....which was the opposite of their initial work without pitch & heave....
8. The fuckin video is a piece of shiiiiiite.

Trust this informs & helps..

Frog
 

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,599
1,336
Melbourne
Cmon guys....

The click bait called 'Untold Story' is just that... 'click bait'...

Just on a couple of key issues:

1. Benny L hated Bertrand, probably for good reason.
2. The keel winglets and bulb enabled lower CG and higher RM under the restricive draft rule. The endplate effects probably materially reduced induced drag
3. The light and minimum WL design enabled (relatively) good SA:WS
4. Dennis went the wrong way down the last run - thicker boundary layer with rougher water near the spectator fleet. And set the wrong spinnaker for the TWS and water roughness, as well.
5. Statistically. the AII team had a predicted gain on that run of ~ 40 secomds, from their previous racing against Liberty.
6. Whilst Peter van Oosanen was incredibly important to the tank and numerical modelling work, Ben L and his guys made every final design decision.
7. Post Cup simulation for downwind, including keel wings with typical heave and pitch, saw positive results versus lower wetted surface design with conventional keel....which was the opposite of their initial work without pitch & heave....
8. The fuckin video is a piece of shiiiiiite.

Trust this informs & helps..

Frog

Let's hope Sailman reads this..!
 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,179
1,770
South Coast, UK
I don't really care whether AUS bent or broke "designed in country" rules, which in any case don't figure in the DoG and were clearly framed by the NYYC to keep the Cup bolted down in 44th Street; in particular by making design innovation harder to achieve in smaller countries. If NYYC could or would not prove the allegations at the time, it is in any case invidious to keep repeating them 40 years on.
 
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sailman

Super Anarchist
8,334
443
Portsmouth, RI
Let's hope Sailman reads this..!
I did and in point 6 he admits that the work was done overseas. A2 winning the Cup was good for the Cup moving forward at that time. Until NZ in ‘92 the Cup was expanding fairly well. After that ushered in the IACC it moved forward again with some very good racing until Oracle moved away from traditional match racing and then NZ came in double down on the mess the AC has become.
 

Stingray~

Super Anarchist
12,252
3,341
PNW

1666045858743.png
 

Curious2

Anarchist
670
246
Or you could read about who designed the keel

Australian designers Payne and Hood published a drawing of a 12 Metre with winglets in an Australian magazine in the 1970s, so the concept of a 12 with winglets was certainly not created by the Dutch in the '80s.
 

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,599
1,336
Melbourne
I did and in point 6 he admits that the work was done overseas. A2 winning the Cup was good for the Cup moving forward at that time. Until NZ in ‘92 the Cup was expanding fairly well. After that ushered in the IACC it moved forward again with some very good racing until Oracle moved away from traditional match racing and then NZ came in double down on the mess the AC has become.
Just because the work was done overseas means nothing.! Using a tank test facility OS was legal. It was done by Australian's end of story.
 

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,599
1,336
Melbourne
Australian designers Payne and Hood published a drawing of a 12 Metre with winglets in an Australian magazine in the 1970s, so the concept of a 12 with winglets was certainly not created by the Dutch in the '80s.
It was an all Australian project that was done within the rules. Unlike Liberty who removed tonnes of ballast before the final race to continue in their tradition of America bending the rules to suit their cause. Hugely historical win for little ol Australia..!
 

sailman

Super Anarchist
8,334
443
Portsmouth, RI
It was an all Australian project that was done within the rules. Unlike Liberty who removed tonnes of ballast before the final race to continue in their tradition of America bending the rules to suit their cause. Hugely historical win for little ol Australia..!
Except…no
“RESOLVED that the word "constructed" wherever it appeared in the Deed of Gift of the America’s Cup shall always be construed as "designed and built". This was an interpretation from 1958 that they were bound by. Just accept it. It doesn’t take away from the sailing talent and that whole team. It just speaks to the slimy character of Bond.
 

terrafirma

Super Anarchist
7,599
1,336
Melbourne
Except…no
“RESOLVED that the word "constructed" wherever it appeared in the Deed of Gift of the America’s Cup shall always be construed as "designed and built". This was an interpretation from 1958 that they were bound by. Just accept it. It doesn’t take away from the sailing talent and that whole team. It just speaks to the slimy character of Bond.
Whatever. You are clutching at straws still. It's meaningless IMO..As to the character of Bond are you saying he would have been more at home within the walls of the NYYC....?
 
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Ease the sheet.

ignoring stupid people is easy
20,349
2,342
Except…no
“RESOLVED that the word "constructed" wherever it appeared in the Deed of Gift of the America’s Cup shall always be construed as "designed and built". This was an interpretation from 1958 that they were bound by. Just accept it. It doesn’t take away from the sailing talent and that whole team. It just speaks to the slimy character of Bond.
It was designed and built in Australia by Australians.

It was tested overseas.

You really think the nyyc let something like this slip?
You really think they and their lawyers were that incompetent?
 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,179
1,770
South Coast, UK
You really think the nyyc let something like this slip?
You really think they and their lawyers were that incompetent?

I really think they knew they'd be a laughing stock if they pursued it and they didn't wish to be. So argued at least one of the books that followed the event. If that is what happened, it was a good call.
 

Ease the sheet.

ignoring stupid people is easy
20,349
2,342
I really think they knew they'd be a laughing stock if they pursued it and they didn't wish to be. So argued at least one of the books that followed the event. If that is what happened, it was a good call.
They didn't care about being a laughing stock.
They cared about winning.

They looked under every stone and sued the fuck out of everything they found.
The definitely were not playing sailing nicey nicey. And they did it for over 100 years.

If sailman's opinion had merit, there would be a court judgement written down somewhere.
 

sailman

Super Anarchist
8,334
443
Portsmouth, RI
Whatever. You are clutching at straws still. It's meaningless IMO..As to the character of Bond are you saying he would have been more at home within the walls of the NYYC....?
Not clutching at anything, the facts came out well after the fact. At the time it was just rumor.
 

pusslicker

Super Anarchist
2,164
905
Paris
It was an all Australian project that was done within the rules. Unlike Liberty who removed tonnes of ballast before the final race to continue in their tradition of America bending the rules to suit their cause. Hugely historical win for little ol Australia...
The multiple certificates were completely legal. I think the NYYC pissed off the other syndicate by not telling them what DC was doing.
 




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