Wess
Super Anarchist
Go Leo!
US ILCA 7 representative for Paris 2024
- Thread starter Admiral Hornblower
- Start date
Why such apparent contempt for so many people? The Laser IS fun, which is why so many people sail it. Why assume that we sail it for any other reason?
Foilers are fun but there's a good reason that no foiling boat has achieved really significant popularity - they are not enough fun for most people to make them worthwhile. As you know, the number of people actually racing Moths is pretty small, as is the number of people who sail the current Olympic foiling boat? The N17 is a disaster in terms of actually getting people on the racecourse, so why do you apparently assume it's fun?
We're not even sure yet about how popular the IQ Foil is going to be; now that it seems that it's only for 90kg+ men and big women it seems that for most people the "fun" is going to consist of getting beaten.
You should also do some research. The IOC's Olympic Programme Committee has published selection criteria for sports. Sailing's major problem is that it's not popular enough, particularly in developing nations. The Laser fulfils a vital purpose because it's the only class with anything like significant numbers in many developing nations. Get rid of the Laser and you get rid of the international appeal that sailing needs.
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MattFranzek
Member
Laser is more popular than the Moth (foiling version) and Waszp class because it got a 40 year head start as a class. Lasers are fun, but putting the assumed best sailors in the world in a 54 year old boat is cruel. Kids, who the target audience to grow any sport, don’t look at a Laser and say Oohh that looks cool. They say it looks painful and stupid. Ask around. If your next argument is the Moth class doesn’t have many sailors is semi-true, but look at the fleet at the past few worlds or various national champs. It’s guys who sailed Lasers, won, and moved on because it’s the next step.
Nacra 17s are expensive, complicated, and I’m hoping to get out on one this spring to learn more about them. But if your argument is an Olympic class should exist to get people sailing, then the Nacra 17 and Moth should be up there because they are interesting to watch.
iQFoils are interesting. Same cost of entry as a race spec Laser, yet similar size guys/girls. A kid at the club at home has a knock off iQFoil and people love it.
I have seen what the IOC wants out of a class, and the argument that a Laser should stick around because developing nations can afford it, yet Sailing struggles from lack of popularity go hand in hand. Foiling boats are more fun to watch and more attractive to a younger generation, who drive a lot of the clicks/views. So keep marching out the $10-13k race spec ILCA (with all the carbon bits, covers, and a dolly) over a Waszp that is delivered for $15-18k, not much more.
Lasers are fun. I got back into one last summer to race and had a blast sailing it, but it’s been passed by. It’s a 54 year old design. It’s time for something else to take it spot that makes people want to watch and train for the Olympics.
Bill5
Right now
Maybe they should have a trial with a few modern boats…
As ultra-cool as they are, I will bet my grandkids net worth there won’t be 230,000 foiling moths and waszps built over the next 40 years.
tillerman
Super Anarchist
Bill5
Right now
Gee - was there a post on this topic?
tillerman
Super Anarchist
Wess
Super Anarchist
What he said.
Think what Bill and others miss is that you can't make the Laser cool. Its freaking half a century old. Ancient is the right word. What ILCA could have done with FRAND was make it uber affordable. Instead they adopted a model that made it more expensive. So now you have an ancient uber expensive boat. Its really only best suited elitist old farts stuck in the past and if that is what they want that is what they should have. But for gosh sakes but a better boat in the Olympics.
Bill5
Right now
I don’t think the Laser/ILCA is cool. It’s just a boat that happens to be raced almost everywhere with used boats being awesome for the grassroots sailor. If “cool” is a requirement for Olympics, the 470 must go - it’s even older than the Laser. Looks like a bloated FJ.
Looper
Anarchist
Uber expensive? I have been well informed that one could purchase a brand new ILCA with dolly and covers for $8500. Enlighten me with what other OD boat exists today that costs less than that for a NEW boat besides a home-built opti cut from a 4x8 sheet of plywood.
Laser/ILCA is the cheapest game in town.
Wess
Super Anarchist
Yea the 470 could go too.
tillerman
Super Anarchist
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AnIdiot
Sock
No Laser would mean no sailing events (I recognise that that's what some would like to see).
As stated above, no Laser means no grassroots/developing countries can compete; out goes sailing.
Cost of entry is what killed keelboats, Para sailing followed because it needed the expensive keelboat infrastructure. Niche activities like Foiling kites & Cats are being included to try and broaden spectator appeal but they are not representative of the wider sport, nor inclusive.
If the Laser goes, sailing goes; that's why the Aero (etc) didn't, and won't, replace it.
As stated above, no Laser means no grassroots/developing countries can compete; out goes sailing.
Cost of entry is what killed keelboats, Para sailing followed because it needed the expensive keelboat infrastructure. Niche activities like Foiling kites & Cats are being included to try and broaden spectator appeal but they are not representative of the wider sport, nor inclusive.
If the Laser goes, sailing goes; that's why the Aero (etc) didn't, and won't, replace it.
Wess
Super Anarchist
Come on; how often do 3rd world nation win medals in Laser sailing? Or by compete do you mean there to fill up the spots? Just don't see how this is helping grow sailing. The numbers seem to suggest its not. Get something fun and interesting and maybe energize the younger set!
tillerman
Super Anarchist
About as often as USA wins medals in Laser sailing.
Wess
Super Anarchist
Well these days one could argue that the US is... ah never mind the thought belong in PA.
The point is the Laser in the Olympics doesn't help the sport of sailing, doesn't helping 3rd world nations (unless you mean participation trophies which brings us back to the first line), and doesn't even help the IOC or WS (not that I give a shit about either).
And meanwhile the under-employed bald one can't figure out how to make more affordable instead of less affordable Lasers under FRAND. Maybe if he ever bought and sailed a 99-er he might see the light...
But that train has long gone...
The point is the Laser in the Olympics doesn't help the sport of sailing, doesn't helping 3rd world nations (unless you mean participation trophies which brings us back to the first line), and doesn't even help the IOC or WS (not that I give a shit about either).
And meanwhile the under-employed bald one can't figure out how to make more affordable instead of less affordable Lasers under FRAND. Maybe if he ever bought and sailed a 99-er he might see the light...
But that train has long gone...
Tcatman
Super Anarchist
You are on a roll today with the summary judgements!!
