IPLore
Super Anarchist
2016 Laser Radial. Silver.
US ILCA 7 representative for Paris 2024
- Thread starter Admiral Hornblower
- Start date
IPLore
Super Anarchist
By drinking bleach?
IPLore
Super Anarchist
Right observations
Wrong conclusion
There are 8 other slots in sailing Olympics. Have at it. When one of those classes comes close to the participation levels of the Laser, then lets talk about replacing the Laser.
In the meantime, don't try and fix the only Olympic class that ain't broke.
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
Here's 7 pages from WS on Olympic class selection criteria. From a scan-read, in "Event selection", participation is discussed in one short sentence. In "Equipment selection", it appears not at all. Laser boosters get understandably excited about participation but that doesn't seem to be very much aligned to policy.
https://www.sailing.org/tools/docum...dEquipmentSelectionCriteriaPolicy-[27487].pdf
IPLore
Super Anarchist
Participation is front and center in both event and equipment selection.
The existing Regulation 21.3.2 of World Sailing as amended October 2022 provides that
The Olympic Events and Equipment taken together shall meet the requirements and objectives of the IOC and to:
(d) be attractive and accessible to young athletes from all continents
(e) maximise the participation of the world’s best sailors and showcase the diversity of the sport;
The submission to replace 21.3.2 provides that:
When selected, the Olympic Events and Olympic equipment shall meet the strategic objectives of World Sailing defined as:
iii) Maintain a balance between Events with universal participation, and Events with high performance and/or entertainment properties;
Appendix A: Olympic Event and Equipment Selection Criteria Policy
f) Universality & Popularity
i. Number of sailors/members for the Event worldwide: Men and Women
ii. Date and location of most recent World Championships
iii. Total number of participants in the most recent World Championships
iv. Number of MNAs that took part in the last World Championships
v. Number of continents represented in the top 10 in the last World Championships: Men and Women
vi. Number of MNAs that took part in the last continental championships
vii. Number of MNAs and Classes that organise National Championships: Men and b\Women
viii. Average number of tickets/spectators at the last World Championships
ix. Number of countries in which the last World Championships was broadcast
Thankfully World Sailing does still care about participation. The difference now is that it has to be "balanced with entertainment properties"
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
"Universal participation" means sailors are spread across countries and continents. It isn't referring to the number of sailors in the class.
P.S. "universal" is fucking ridiculous. Even JWST isn't good enough to tell us what the little green men of Proxima Centauri b sail on Wednesday evenings.
P.S. "universal" is fucking ridiculous. Even JWST isn't good enough to tell us what the little green men of Proxima Centauri b sail on Wednesday evenings.
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IPLore
Super Anarchist
But back on topic.
The USA does not know how to recruit, build and put together a successful Olympic team. They hired someone who did know, but they fired him when he told them a few unpopular home truths.
The USA does not know how to recruit, build and put together a successful Olympic team. They hired someone who did know, but they fired him when he told them a few unpopular home truths.
IPLore
Super Anarchist
They have Lasers and Plasma Cannons in Star Trek.
When Kirk says "Beam me up Scotty"....do you think he is referring to 470s?
IPLore
Super Anarchist
Put bluntly he told US sailing that the US Olympic program lacked
- Money
- Career Opportunities for Olympic Athletes
- A pipeline of motivated youth sailors
- Coaches who were winners
So we have gone back to "building" our Olympic program, from the basement on down.
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
It's isn't hard to "know" how successful national programmes are built. They aren't secretive about it. USS doesn't seem willing or able to copy them. You could run a world-class programme for decades for the price of a single AC campaign but those who could fund it doesn't seem inclined to do so. I find that a bit sad. More medals for the Aussies and for us, then.
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
You may be onto something, Kang and Kodos are better equipped with their tentacles to handle the Laser's control systems than us humans.
IPLore
Super Anarchist
When you are out of shape, you look in the mirror less often.
Bored Stiff
Member
Really? I don’t have a Laser or a Waszp/Moth. I can see the attraction and appeal of both. I‘m surprised there isn’t a TV circuit for Moths like SailGP. But…
Every single Laser and Opti kid wishes they were in a Moth/Waszp.
The strength of the Laser isn’t the 250,000 boats that have been produced.
3000 Moths have been added to the fleet since they started foiling consistently
No one from a “developing nation” doesn’t already have huge money backing them
the cost of a $36-40k Moth to actually drive viewers and clicks is a drop in the hat
Pro sports isn’t a poor man’s game
Lasers out sold anything these days in their first 5 years because they were literally the only game in town
Laser Youth worlds have huge numbers because adults won’t take the time to listen to the kids
kids don’t want to sail them.
Parents, coaches, program directors all funnel kids into Lasers because they won’t listen.
No one likes sailing in >8kts of wind. Stop making kids and adults do it. It’s boring.
in the Olympics we expect to see athletes doing things that us mortals can’t understand…
these statements are all factually wrong.
How many sailing clubs in the world do not have suitable waters, winds, infrastructure, local supplies etc to support Waszp sailing?
Statements like those quoted above are from the mouth of someone who hasn‘t seen the world, hasn’t seen how the majority live and doesn’t understand how the world works. Elite level ILCA racing will, and rightly so, continue for many years because it is the most accessible boat there is.
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
He was talking about Olympic sailing. Nothing about "Elite level ILCA racing". Not about sailing at venues too small or gusty for a Waszp. Olympic sailing.
Bored Stiff
Member
No, he wasn’t.
“Laser Youth worlds have huge numbers because adults won’t take the time to listen to the kids.”
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
True, he mixed that statement in.
I've played a minor part in running a Laser Youth Worlds, driving a safety boat. A whole flotilla of coach boats paid for by wealthy parents. When the wind crapped out, each towed their single boat home to an early shower while the rest of us gathered up those whose daddy was too "poor" to run to a coach boat. Not a single coach stopped to help anybody else. One young sailor lowered his wetsuit and literally pissed in my general direction because he didn't like my marshalling him out of a prohibited area. Sorry, I didn't find much to like about the event.
I've played a minor part in running a Laser Youth Worlds, driving a safety boat. A whole flotilla of coach boats paid for by wealthy parents. When the wind crapped out, each towed their single boat home to an early shower while the rest of us gathered up those whose daddy was too "poor" to run to a coach boat. Not a single coach stopped to help anybody else. One young sailor lowered his wetsuit and literally pissed in my general direction because he didn't like my marshalling him out of a prohibited area. Sorry, I didn't find much to like about the event.
Bored Stiff
Member
Sounds truly awful, but is the class of boat is to blame?
Edit: or rather, is the fact it is an “old fashioned” non-foiling design with a soft Dacron sail to blame?
Edit: or rather, is the fact it is an “old fashioned” non-foiling design with a soft Dacron sail to blame?
VWAP
Super Anarchist
Many events coaches are "encouraged" to tow other boats in at the end of the day especially if the wind has died.
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
It seems to attract "competitive parent", a species very much to be avoided IMO.
As it happens, I also once drove safety boat at a large and rock-star infested International Moth event. Great atmosphere, no crap. Make of that what you want.
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
Good idea. If I'd been able to catch up with any of the coach boats, I'd have done just that. But they were gone.
