tillerman
Super Anarchist
On the water "coaching" at regattas is a blight on our sport. Ultimately I blame the parents.
US ILCA 7 representative for Paris 2024
- Thread starter Admiral Hornblower
- Start date
Bill5
Right now
How many hundreds of articles do you want to read on parents fucking up kids sports? Google it up. Sailing parents are cream puffs compared to a lot of sports and activities. The Laser is to blame? Please…
MattFranzek
Member
How many hundreds of articles do you want to read on parents fucking up kids sports? Google it up. Sailing parents are cream puffs compared to a lot of sports and activities. The Laser is to blame? Please…
The Laser isn’t to blame. The kids aren’t to blame. It’s the parents, and why we lose more kids when they are old enough to not be told by their parents what to do.
I was on the phone with AMac last week talking about upgrades for my Mach 2. Pretty sure he just is too busy selling boats and racing to update the website.
Sailing in light air is boring. I raced in LIS for 10 years and quit sailing for the next 10 because it was so boring. Why is sailing strong in Miami, SF Bay, Newport, wind. Sure Annapolis has really good racing, but it’s the best spot to sail with in a 2 hour drive of multiple major cities.
My point on finances is olympic sailing isn’t cheap, so arguing the Laser is cheap so it should be the Olympic boat is dumb.
I don’t get around the world? Have got ever scraped crap off the bottom of a ship with 6 little Bangladesh men in a Singapore shipyard who are indentured servants? Who get paid $1000/month yet the yard forces them to live at the yard for $400/month then also charges them $200/month? Have you walked around fish markets in Japan, Korea, China and seen people living under bushes begging for scraps? I travel the world on container ships for work. Docks and container terminals, and the land just off them aren’t yacht clubs and sailing centers where future Olympic sailors come from. Go fuck your self and get out, see how the rest of the world lives, not just the next waspy Yacht Club BMW driving asshole who is paying you to coach their kid. Yeah sailing is a privilege and expensive, there is nothing affordable about it, and the greed and lack of foresight is killing it.
Lasers are fun, they don’t belong in the Olympics.
The Laser isn’t to blame. The kids aren’t to blame. It’s the parents, and why we lose more kids when they are old enough to not be told by their parents what to do.
I was on the phone with AMac last week talking about upgrades for my Mach 2. Pretty sure he just is too busy selling boats and racing to update the website.
Sailing in light air is boring. I raced in LIS for 10 years and quit sailing for the next 10 because it was so boring. Why is sailing strong in Miami, SF Bay, Newport, wind. Sure Annapolis has really good racing, but it’s the best spot to sail with in a 2 hour drive of multiple major cities.
My point on finances is olympic sailing isn’t cheap, so arguing the Laser is cheap so it should be the Olympic boat is dumb.
I don’t get around the world? Have got ever scraped crap off the bottom of a ship with 6 little Bangladesh men in a Singapore shipyard who are indentured servants? Who get paid $1000/month yet the yard forces them to live at the yard for $400/month then also charges them $200/month? Have you walked around fish markets in Japan, Korea, China and seen people living under bushes begging for scraps? I travel the world on container ships for work. Docks and container terminals, and the land just off them aren’t yacht clubs and sailing centers where future Olympic sailors come from. Go fuck your self and get out, see how the rest of the world lives, not just the next waspy Yacht Club BMW driving asshole who is paying you to coach their kid. Yeah sailing is a privilege and expensive, there is nothing affordable about it, and the greed and lack of foresight is killing it.
Lasers are fun, they don’t belong in the Olympics.
Bill5
Right now
How does a boat “belong” in the Olympics?
And how far back do I have to read to understand the reference to scraping boats with Bangladeshis?
And how far back do I have to read to understand the reference to scraping boats with Bangladeshis?
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1 - Wrong, yet again. The fact that you got Waszp numbers wrong is nothing to do with AMAC being "too busy to update the website". For a start, it's been updated at least six times this year already, so it IS being updated.
The fact that you are prepared to claim that Waszp isn't updating the website when the quickest check on the site would have shown you that your claim is utter bullshit shows how little you are concerned with finding out the truth.
Secondly, updating a website has nothing to do with the fact that your claims were complete and utter bullshit. There were NOT 200 Waszps at the Perth regatta, but 59. That's nothing against the Waszp class and boat (they are great) but it does show that you post BS.
2- To use your term, go fuck yourself and stop being so arrogant as to tell the world whether light air sailing is fun or not. Who the hell do you think you are to declare that sailors in places where light winds predominate don't know how to have fun? You and I may prefer strong winds, but our taste is not the only proper taste. It's bizarrely arrogant to say that because you found LIS sailing boring, no one else can find it interesting.
3- You may have belonged to clubs full of waspy BMW driving types, but once again that's just your own parochial experience. Please stop pretending that you know what every club is like. There are clubs on tiny ponds with 20ft by 10ft clubhouses in inner-city England, clubs with world champs but no flush toilets in country Australia, clubs with Italy where they sail 18 ft trailer sailers and hundred year old 12 footers. Don't pretend that you know the background of people you have never met; most of the clubs around my area, for example, are run by school teachers. There isn't a paid club coach for hundreds of miles.
4- Sailing does not have to be an expensive sport. Kids at our clubs are getting racing with $300 Lasers and $500 Picos. They ARE having fun, even in light winds, in contravention of your direct orders.
What bad kids we have! We must ban them from the club for daring to break the orders of our all-seeing leader Mr Franzek.
5- The funny thing here is that my club (to give just one example) has coaches who have scored Olympic medals as sailors and coaches and who sail foilers, and yet you're trying to claim that their approach to sailing is wrong and that yours is right. Why do you think you know more than they do?
One of the strangest things on SA is that whenever there's a thread asking why US sailing is doing poorly compared to British, Kiwi or Australian sailing, it ends up with Americans telling Brits, Aussies and Kiwis that they are doing it wrong, just as you are doing.
The real reason US sailing isn't doing well could be that US sailors refuse to learn from more successful countries, just as you are refusing to listen.
6- repeating your claim that Lasers don't belong in the Olympics is just as unconvincing as it was the first time around, since you've provided no actual reasons or evidence.
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MattFranzek
Member
If
You are correct on point 5.
I’ll keep this simple, if you are correct, why can’t in 5 pages can no one figure out who is trying to represent the US Class at the next Olympics in the Laser/ILCA?
You are correct on point 5.
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AnIdiot
Sock
I'm not seeing the relevance of the question... but it highlights the issue in the USA: lack of interest, structure, support, strategy.
Changing one of the boats (sorry, "equipment"
) wouldn't fix that, as has been explained above. I'm not sure why you think it would. The attempts to put flashy, fast boats in the event to drum up spectator interest have not exactly set the sailing world, nor spectator interest, on fire; and have arguably taken away from the "validity" of the competition.To be blunt- you're giving (me, at least) the impression that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
TBH, I'm not sure what you're proposing (if anything) apart from replacing the Laser with a faster boat(?). I noticed that when reference was made to "developing" countries, you switched the terminology to "third world" countries... In the context of elite sports, I'd suggest those are not referring to the same thing.
Maybe you'd like to offer up your proposal for a better event, or better equipment, and we can explain more clearly why you're wrong.
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
I'm not altogether sure about that. The 49er has had a positive effect, there are UK clubs with thriving 29er fleets. As for "validity of the competition", 49er helm and crew skills have proven transferable to other sailing arenas.
To pontificate, there's no consensus over whether Olympic classes should represent the sport at large, whether they should meet the desiderata of the IOC or whether, through some unfathomable miracle, they should somehow do both. Until such a consensus is found, these bad-tempered debates will continue.
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AnIdiot
Sock
Absolutely agree. Would add "TV appeal" to the list of conflicting demands.
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VWAP
Super Anarchist
Whattttt?????? Sailing should be out of the olympics and how disappointing the USA does not field a large successful group of Olympic contenders every 4 years
Foredeck Shuffle
More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
One design is fun and the ILCA/Laser/Torch/TGIF being a large one design that requires some physical abilities, makes it fun.
If you have sailed anything from this century the ILCA/Laser/Torch/TGIF feels like driving your great grand pappy's farm tractor he bought just after world war two.
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Foredeck Shuffle
More of a Stoic Cynic, Anarchy Sounds Exhausting
Where can you purchase a new ILCA with a dolly, sail, cover, with taxes for 8,500?
- $8,780 : PSA ILCA 7, old rigging, aluminum upper, MkII sail, Dynamic dolly, no cover, no delivery, no taxes.
- $9,580 : PSA ILCA 7, XD rigging, carbon upper, MkII sail, Dynamic dolly, no cover, no delivery, no taxes.
- $10,370 : : PSA ILCA 7, Olympic package, carbon upper, MkII sail, Dynamic dolly, no cover, no delivery, no taxes.
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Martin T
Anarchist
I always thought the Olympics was all about the athlete?
Proving strength, agility & brain power should be the name of the game, not an arms race of equipment.
So to me the type of equipment shouldn't matter, as long as the three strengths are challenged.
Proving strength, agility & brain power should be the name of the game, not an arms race of equipment.
So to me the type of equipment shouldn't matter, as long as the three strengths are challenged.
Bill5
Right now
“Faster, stronger, higher, together.” I tend to agree the Olympic motto applies to the athletes and not the equipment. (Noting the potential for humour in at least two of these)
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
I'm afraid not. Finn and Europe are examples of classes where a load of effort and money went into equipment development. As for the Laser, buy 10 masts and choose the best.
Bill5
Right now
Well, the Finn and Europe aren’t Olympic classes any longer.
I have never kept up with 470 racing, but I am not sure if air humping adds to the Olympic ideal. Now that’s a way to keep tv viewership at bay…https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2021/04/28/kinetics-at-the-olympic-level/
Bored Stiff
Member
This thread:
My country doesn’t win so I think we should scrap the event 😂
My country doesn’t win so I think we should scrap the event 😂
You appear to always assume that all your audience here is ignorant of modern design. We're not.
The newest OD I sail was designed in 2017 and the newest high-performance development class gear I've sailed is newer than that. I've sailed a 2014 Laser competitor and it felt underwhelming to me. My foiler is 2019 vintage.
Like other Laser sailors with similar experience, I still enjoy sailing the Laser and it still feels good.
The Australian Olympic Laser team, which does well, certainly doesn't choose the best of ten masts. As they have told me directly, they sail what they get because that's what they have to do at the Olympics and therefore part of their training is learning to adapt to any differences in supplied gear.
It's not a matter of "if I am correct". The fact is that most of your claims are completely and utterly wrong and that shows that you aren't seeing what it really happening in the sport.
As others have noted, the idea that the choice of classes is somehow related to the (alleged) lack of US Olympic aspirants is illogical. The Olympic classes are the same for everyone and yet other countries have plenty of people trying to represent their country in Lasers/ILCA in the next Olympics.
As the Olympic class rankings show, there are far MORE people trying to represent their county in the Olympic in Lasers than in any other class. The class with by far the smallest number of people trying for the Games is the only foiling boat in the event.
