US isn’t competitive in medal chase at Tokyo 2020 because…

JimC

Not actually an anarchist.
8,192
1,098
South East England
Even dinghy sailing is hugely expensive.  Hull, sails, spars, foils, gear, travel, entry fees.  Multiply when they break or wear beyond their competitive life.   Factor in trips abroad and its very expensive.  All Michael Phelps needed was a speedo and a towel.  
An interesting thought is that US College sailing seems to be quite well funded. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression at this distance is that they appear to have professional boat maintenance, coaching etc. I can't say what its like now, but as I recall in my day UK university sailing had none of that, the students had to maintain the boats etc, even pay for their own travel to events (obviously a smaller issue in the UK). If College sailing does have a good degree of funding what would happen if that were available to the youth pathway instead? (OK, I know it won't be as simple as that).

 

crashtack

Member
499
365
An interesting thought is that US College sailing seems to be quite well funded. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression at this distance is that they appear to have professional boat maintenance, coaching etc. I can't say what its like now, but as I recall in my day UK university sailing had none of that, the students had to maintain the boats etc, even pay for their own travel to events (obviously a smaller issue in the UK). If College sailing does have a good degree of funding what would happen if that were available to the youth pathway instead? (OK, I know it won't be as simple as that).
As with most college sports that aren't football or basketball, only a small fraction of US college teams are well funded (varsity programs in schools with large athletics endowments). With a few exceptions of "club varsity" teams that get external funding, the rest are not so lucky. Don't see how that could be transferred to the "youth pathway" to be completely honest.

 
To the west of you there is Marsh Creek, and the Marsh Creek Sailing Club has an active Laser Fleet #489  I think you can store your boat there too, and no jet skies to content with. 

http://www.mcsailingclub.org/

As a reference, from Ardmore to boat in the water (Prindle 16 at the time) was about a 90 minutes in 1994.

To the north there is Nockamixon and I believe they too have a Laser fleet..  I have sailed there a few times and it was always good.

Have fun...
Nockaixon is the closest to me. I don't think they have any laser racing anymore, at least as of a couple years ago when I last looked. Could be wrong. 

 
An interesting thought is that US College sailing seems to be quite well funded. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression at this distance is that they appear to have professional boat maintenance, coaching etc. I can't say what its like now, but as I recall in my day UK university sailing had none of that, the students had to maintain the boats etc, even pay for their own travel to events (obviously a smaller issue in the UK). If College sailing does have a good degree of funding what would happen if that were available to the youth pathway instead? (OK, I know it won't be as simple as that).
Some of the colleges are very well funded. Most are not. US College sailing is separate and apart from both the NCAA and USS. I'd wager most college sailing programs are club level, but they race against funded varsity teams. Aside from coaching, and the possibility of less practice time due to more maintenance time, it doesn't matter once get to the event since you're always using the hosts' boats. 

Personally, I was thought it would be cool if certain non USCS events counted towards the college sailing rankings - ie Miami OCR, the event(s) at Oak Cliff in New York, and maybe some west coast events. To at least throw some "legitimacy" to non college events and try to encourage olympic sailing. It'll never happen, though. 

And really, at the end of the day, if a sailor is serious about going to the olympics, they really shouldn't bother with collegiate sailing at all. But, if the yare a top level sailor, they do get 4 years of basically free sailing and coaching (if they were going to go to college in the first place). 

 

Wavedancer II

Anarchist
724
187
Did anyone really think that US sailors had a chance for a gold medal, or any medal, for that matter?

Prior results weren't promising at all...

 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,684
2,135
So why is there no funding for top US sailing talent?  The US is very successful in other Olympic sports - did Simone Biles, Michael Phelps and Carl Lewis come from a wealthy backgrounds?
Michael Phelps - Speedo, Under Armour, Omega, Master Spas

Carl Lewis - Nike,  Mizuno

Simone Biles - Athleta, Visa, Core Power Protein shakes

Luke Muller (US Finn Sailor) - Gets free sunglasses from Oakley.

It doesnt draw in the sponsors like a track star brings in Nike.

 
Did anyone really think that US sailors had a chance for a gold medal, or any medal, for that matter?

Prior results weren't promising at all...
If(third-time Olympian & world champion) Paige Railey hadn't been black flagged twice she may have sailed a completely different regatta psychologically, her training partner Sarah Douglas made 6th in a very competitive Radial fleet (with the top spots guarded by Bouwmeester and Rindom)

I was hoping Shea/Roble would be able to grab the bull by the horns, they did pretty well at the last FX worlds and had a great battle for selection against arguably a stronger team with Henken/Tunnicliffe-Tobias

 

spankoka

Super Anarchist
It doesnt draw in the sponsors like a track star brings in Nike.
Lacrosse doesn't attract a lot of sponsors, but yet NCAA D1 lacrosse is definitely elite. Some small school could make a name for themselves as a sailing powerhouse, just as tiny Hobart College is best known for lacrosse. Lacrosse is probably going to be in the 2028 Olympics, and US will be the likely favorite, precisely because US colleges support the game.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lacrosse doesn't attract a lot of sponsors, but yet NCAA D1 lacrosse is definitely elite. Some small school could make a name for themselves as a sailing powerhouse, just as tiny Hobart College is best known for lacrosse. Lacrosse is probably going to be in the 2028 Olympics, and US will be the likely favorite, precisely because US colleges support the game.  
This would be a better analogy if NCAA lax was played on a half-court with mini sticks and no hitting was allowed

 

spankoka

Super Anarchist
I get that, but obviously a given college could support sailors on the Olympic path at the same time that they have a NCAA team competing. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

sunseeker

Super Anarchist
3,731
658
The reason we didn’t get medals goes back about 20 years. We didn’t create a big enough talent pool, and where we were somewhat deep - laser radial - we put far too many resources against one person too often. 
 

Truth is, given our current resources, and the amount of utter dysfunction the management of the team went through this cycle our placings at this regatta are pretty good overall. 

 

crashtack

Member
499
365
I get that, but obviously a given college could support sailors on the Olympic path at the same time that they have a NCAA team competing. 
what exactly would this gain the college? Also college sailing isn't in the NCAA, teams are organized under the ICSA with regional conferences such as SAISA and NEISA.

Also I would argue that Charleston is the Hobart of college sailing. Jacksonville is also making a name for itself.

 

enigmatically2

Super Anarchist
3,993
2,054
Earth
GB universities certainly don't contribute to Olympic sailing aspirations. It's all team racing.So that isn't the primary cause-which isn't to say that US colleges could not help

GB has plenty of success in non-Olympic classes too so it isn't just the lottery funding. I think the ease of travelling to nationals and Europeans may help us. Plus success encourages more people to do it which leads to more success

 

Admiral Hornblower

Super Anarchist
1,175
481
NE Ohio
well, we can pride ourselves at having the worst Olympic sailing performance in our history. Only two teams got into the medal race, and are best finish was 9th. In the Laser radial we finished in a shocking 37th

 

MR.CLEAN

Moderator
46,928
4,928
Not here
No way to have predicted that /purp

Usst finally axed the magazine publisher/team director and brought in a proven gold medal winner. They then decided not to listen to him about anything. I remember some words from some us sailing boss about how “Malcolm doesn’t understand the American way.”  I think he meant to say “Malcolm won’t sacrifice his reputation and become a loser  like us sailing just to make some cash.” “American way” is code for “the guys who donate the most to the team have final say”

the Gary Hobson/Bruce Burton/josh Adams/Newport mafia brigade have been pushing the usst towards this cliff for almost two decades. Nice work men

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tcatman

Super Anarchist
1,514
143
Chesapeake Bay
2 medal rounds???   Even worse.... what does the pipeline look like behind these seniors in US Olympic sailing?   We are fortunate that there will be several new classes next cycle and the US seems to be able to compete in the first quad of the cycle in new classes. 

Sadly, the US population will only support and focus on winners in these Olympic sports.... two 9th place finishes won't drive a lot of interest.  We are in danger of just friends and families supporting the sailors. 

Is it too soon to have the conversation that qualifying for the games is not enough to get the Olympic trip..... If you haven't demonstrated top 10 finishes and thus the potential to make the medal round the US will not send you.  (That would have been Page's policy)

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tcatman

Super Anarchist
1,514
143
Chesapeake Bay
 how “Malcolm doesn’t understand the American way.”  I think he meant to say “Malcolm won’t sacrifice his reputation and become a loser  like us sailing just to make some cash.”

the Gary Hobson/Bruce Burton/josh Adams/Newport mafia brigade have been pushing the usst towards this cliff for almost two decades. Nice work men
Clean,   did you ever manage to get an exit interview with Malcom?    .... it seems like he never existed after the Newport Mafia parted ways.

Is it as simple as... Page is a winner and knows what it takes in 2020 and the rest of them are living their glory days of the 70s.  They did not want to hurt the sailors feelings and were not going to back Page delivering that tough love message.  Also,  what is the story with coaching..... same thing... nice guys with records... or SOB's that can coach talent up.

Stupid question...   Do you think US Sailing and the US Olympic committee have ANOTHER ... "after failure"... what went wrong and formulate another strategic plan.... or do we get the press release  that is... no worries... all is well and on track?

 

knuckles

Super Anarchist
1,100
29
Keyboard
I think that there is a big agreement on the money required to compete in sailing.  You could be a talent in your local body of water, but if you are not able to get some additional coaching and race in big events, it's tough to catch up.  The biggest events are in Europe every year, so there is a time/money/logistics commitment, and with a small pool available, it could be difficult to get the right individuals into Europe.  

And then there's the Club 420.  It will be interesting to follow the successful USA I-420 sailors from this summer, and see how they progress going forward.  Again, the commitment to get those sailors, equipment, and coaches to Europe takes money.

 

Tcatman

Super Anarchist
1,514
143
Chesapeake Bay
The reason we didn’t get medals goes back about 20 years. We didn’t create a big enough talent pool, and where we were somewhat deep - laser radial - we put far too many resources against one person too often. 
 

Truth is, given our current resources, and the amount of utter dysfunction the management of the team went through this cycle our placings at this regatta are pretty good overall. 
Utter dysfunction    just 20 years???      Nope .... worse then that and much longer then that.   

 

gohawks

New member
13
17
Montanica
This was my experience:  I did well nationally on the junior and college level about 20 years ago (I'm not trying to sound cool, this is an example).  There was a TON of talent in the junior and college ranks up until about 20 years ago, but absolutely zero support for international competition.  There were a few athletes who had very wealthy parents who would bankroll it to an extent, but unless you had a trust fund, you were SOL.  This is the US Olympic path.  It's kind of sad, in hindsight, to see all that talent squandered.  For myself, it was a big disappointment at the time to realize that I couldn't go to the Olympics just because my parents weren't wealthy, because I was prepared to work and sacrifice whatever it took to get there.  

 




Top