US Sailing Olympic Submission for 2024

MR.CLEAN

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What do you think?

Mixed Kite Triathlon- equipment criteria: a twin tip board with a foiling option: i.e., convertible, with the capability of a wide range of sailor sizes able to compete. Series production of equipment to control cost of purchase and equipment compliance. 

Mixed Team Racing- equipment criteria: Provided 2 person (main, jib) dinghies suitable for team racing, crew weight minimums equalized by requirement to carry weight (water) if under the minimum, no trapeze, no spinnaker. 

Mixed Offshore Keelboat- equipment criteria: capable of Offshore sailing for 2 people to race for 48 hours. Category 2, Offshore Special Regulations. 

View attachment M23182024OlympicSailingCompetitionEventsEquipment-[23734].pdf

 

BGeff

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Anything to make it more exciting than it is right now.  Plus, more TV accessible.

 
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Irish River

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I like team racing, but slow 2 person with no spin is not going to cut it in the Olympics.  Need excitement, and drama, and a 420 is not going to work. Need speed and thrills for tv coverage and advertising opportunities.  Olympics is about showcasing our sport.

 
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rgeek

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The self serving in terms of team racing doesn't look like it will get far.

What are they axing? 3x single handers and 2x double hander. And athlete numbers have to come down by, what, 30 (?). 4-6 on a team racing team.

The kite boarders submission is more fun.

 

Dave Clark

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2 up 48 hour offshore in a light keelboat where rowing is legal in winds below 4 knots. Call it the marathon of sail. It would be one of the most olympic events ever seen.

DRC

edit:
Worth noting that there's an entire (rapidly growing) ocean rowing community that you could pull in for added political leverage to make this thing a reality. And you could get Chris Maas to design the boat.

 
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eastern motors

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They don't think two Olympic athletes can handle a spin and traps?  Probably just wanted a JAM class to appeal to people that know nothings about sailing.

 
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billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
I like team racing, but slow 2 person with no spin is not going to cut it in the Olympics.  Need excitement, and drama, and a 420 is not going to work. Need speed and thrills for tv coverage and advertising opportunities.  Olympics is about showcasing our sport.


Stars have been an Olympic class with no spins, since they beat out he Etchells, many decades ago, in a competetive bid between them.  No doubt there was a fix in there, somewhere by someone, or some powerful group....

 

sunseeker

Super Anarchist
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Stars have been an Olympic class with no spins, since they beat out he Etchells, many decades ago, in a competetive bid between them.  No doubt there was a fix in there, somewhere by someone, or some powerful group....
Stars were in for decades. It was the Soling that beat out the Etchells for an Olympic berth.

 

bait

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I like the approach from the US Olympic sailing director. That whatever platforms are chosen for 2024 we will optimize our team for those events. Not try and fight the system, but work with it and be successful.

With the way the current US support is for The Olympic classes and our results over the past few Olympic Games it might just be a welcome change to see something completely new. Maybe putting some slow ass collegiate boat in and do some team racing might give our sailors a chance at a medal!

Look at our current Olympic fleets going into the final half of the Olympic Quad and how many US teams do you really see making a run at a medal. Certainly not the 470 women’s! In each class we have less than a couple teams even making an attempt. And it appears they are just hoping to make it to the games! In the men’s 470 no one is even giving Stu and Dave a run so they are pretty much going back for Stu’s fourth Olympics and so far no medal. Not sure they are really medal hopefuls for 2020 unless they can step up their results. But at least they are close to the front and can see who the medal contenders are shaping up to be.

Interesting statistic from Rio was that 100% of gold medal winners were the current world champions. Except for Caleb Paine, all the minor medal winners were past worlds champions. How many world champions in the Olympic classes in the last or current quad are Americans- Zero from my count unless I am corrected by the smarter group on this forum.

Maybe a big switch up in the Olympic platforms is just what is needed to revitalize medal efforts here in the US. No matter how crazy, stupid the event might be to make it appeal to viewers. 

While I know there is a solid amount of effort going into supporting the teams for 2020 from US Sailing. I really get the feeling the new management are just trying to get processes and logisitcs in place to see what the changes will be for 2024 and  develop a truly competitive team for this event with an even bigger goal of 2028 in LA. My personal opinion and part of the reason to keep the numbers low on the US Sailing Team this quad. I really do not think there is much hope for many medals inTokyo. But  looking forward to be wrong on this.

 

McGyver

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A couple rowing on a windless night, out of view of the competition.  Now THAT's exciting!

Edit: Can they have sex?

 
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Port Phillip Sailor

Super Anarchist
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Keep the Finn. The epitome of hard racing.

Forget the kites. They are a passing fad, like boardsailing. Remember when sailboards were everywhere? Haven't seen one being used for several years.

Forget the offshore keelboat. Absolutely NO spectator/TV value in that.

 
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token

New member
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Bait earlier wrote, “interesting statistic from Rio was that 100% of gold medal winners were the current world champions”

Rather than spread fake news, how about getting your facts right.

 In Rio 2016, the only Gold Medal winners that were current 2016 world champions were in Finn, 470M and 49’er.  

The Truth is that 30% of 2016 Gold Medal winners were the current world champions - not 100%.

2016 World Champs

Laser-GBR / Radial-GBR / 470M-CRO / 470W-FRA / 49’er-NZL / FX-ESP / RSXM-POL / RSXW-POL / Nacra-FRA / Finn-GBR

Dont waste our time with fake news please. 

 

bait

Member
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See I knew this group was much smarter than I am. Thanks for posting the real facts. Sorry for the fake news. 

 

Spoonie

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I like the idea of a teams race.  A point to note in the proposal is this:

Existing athletes that qualify for other events; allow all nations with 6 sailors competing to enter this event.
Kind of like the cycling.  the teams pursuit etc... I think is made up of riders from other events so no real hit on numbers.  The alternative is maybe a match racing event, again using the same sailors

Two person, offshore keelboat would be neat, but no way is someone going to race for gold for 48hrs double handed then compete again in another event less than a week down the track.  I think logistics and boat cost will kill that one, unless of course the same boats are used for the double hander as the match racing.  

I wonder how a switch from the laser to say, the wasp would go down.  

 

PeterHuston

Super Anarchist
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The US Sailing proposal is just sort of lame.  

There should be medals given for backroom politics, because there's a massive brawl going on over all this around the world.

The winner is going to be Markus Schwendtner, who runs the kite mafia, and basically has control of enough votes to get whatever he wants. 

Though he had a party foul recently when he tried to file a Regulation 35 complaint against the Israeli Zvi Ziblat.  The complaint was rejected by World Sailing.  Seems Markus doesn't care much at all about what used to be the basis for decision making in the sport, especially now that Napier has gotten the procedural rules changed so that the WS Staff can get pretty much whatever they want whenever they want, and he didn't much like Zvi trying to get some common sense put in the equation.  Markus may have fucked with the wrong guy when he fucked with Zvi, who drove tanks in the Israeli army.  Andy Hunt is the face of the organization now, Kim Anderson is just window dressing, but Napier really runs the show.

Whatever everyone needs to understand is that the new Olympic format has just about zero to do with what is good for sailing, it's only about making money for the IOC, then World Sailing, and then whoever can get their equipment made as the mandated equipment for a class.  The Olympics is just a sports reality tv show, and the silly World Sailing World Cup of the World Championship Worlds is the thing World Sailing thinks they will make money on, though they just bleed red ink like a stuck pig on the bitch.

There's a few very experienced Olympians who aren't pleased about all these class changes, but no one at World Sailing gives even a tiny fuck what any sailor thinks.  Santiago Lange had a very good analysis of the changes and costs associated with all the changes in the cat classes, and if the won't listen to him they aren't about to listen to a bunch of stuffed shirt blue blazer types at US Failing.

I can't be bothered to go line by line in the US Sailing submission, but one of the highlights for me was their comparison of snowboarding to sailing, saying that snowboard helped skiing. No it didn't.  It helped ski areas sell more lift tickets to some degree, but the concept of what you see in the Olympics for snowboarding and what happens at a normal ski area are not remotely close to reality.  How many ski areas have giant half pipes?  How many ski areas allow people to just play boardercross?  Same with all the aerial stuff in skiing.  It is a tiny tiny subset of skiing.  

There is nothing about kite foiling that is similar to snowboarding and facilities. Kiters have zero reason to hang out at any yacht club.  Does anyone think that someone sitting on a couch somewhere watching kite foiling is just going to jump and say "hey, that shit is cool, I better start by going down to my community sailing center, sign up for lessons with some dork with a clip board and whistle telling me what I can and can't do so I eventually get a really cool US Sailing certified daysailer license, and then one day maybe I can go to the kite surfing store and show them I am an actual certified sailor and I can just jump on a board and fly and do cool tricks". 

A core problem is that no one has clearly defined a goal, a goal that is achievable and beneficial.  This lofty notion of "sailing on TV will help grow the sport" simply has not and will not work.  If Larry Ellison spending literally 10's of millions of dollars can't draw an audience with big, audacious boats, what makes anyone think that Olympic sailing, while it competes with sports that already have a big tv following in every summer Olympics is going to move the needle one iota for participation across the board.  It won't. 

Kite foiling in the Olympics and on tv will help the kite foiling industry. Period.

Nothing wrong with that, but please, let's stop with these lofty, unachievable goals.

Here's what I'd actually propose, presuming we only have 10 medals in sailing:

Kite foiling acrobatic men
Kite foiling acrobatic women

Kite foiling racing men
Kite foiling racing women

Board foiling acrobatic men
Board foiling acrobatic women

Board foiling racing men
Board foiling racing women 

Moth foiling racing open
Nacra foiling racing mixed, but both sailors must alternate as drivers.

Only the Moth and Nacra are real boats that cost real money.  Everything else is easy and cheap to move around, with low event production costs. If the goal is to sell speed on TV, then why not have everything be foiling?  The feature events of course will be the acrobatic stuff.

Race courses would be much shorter than we have today, say something like 8-12 minute races, which should work for commercial breaks.  After all, this is ALL about TV. 

All starts downwind.

Weather boat has right of way, this is so everyone always sails fast, no more luffing.  We want to see speed don't we?

Medal race is one race, winner take all. Only top four from qualifying get to sail in the medal race. 4th place will truly suck, and the agony of losing will make for great TV.

A fundamental problem in the sport is that all of the sport is regulated from the Olympics top down.  It is utterly absurd that all of racing around the world has to conform to the massive rules and regulations that get promulgated because of the Olympics.  What really should happen is that World Sailing can go run Olympic sailing, the MNA's pick their Olympic teams, and then let the rest of the sport do whatever they want without oversight and regulation from World Sailing.

In the mean time, anyone who thinks they are sailing in the Olympics for love of country, I have some nice beachfront to sell you in Omaha.

It's all about the money, stupid. 
 

 

Loose Cannon

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Posted elsewhere 

What does Triathalon even mean? do you windsurf, ride a bike 100 miles and then run to the finish? It feels like the leadership of our sport are grasping for straws. Get in touch folks. You just guaranteed no 'gravitationally challenged' participants with the elimination of the finn, you still have a laser instead of a moth (which I support if your goal is NOT tv ratings), you kept the most ridiculous event when viewed on TV the 'flappy birds' rsx... 

Credit for trying to add in new segments of our sport with team racing (please Lord, get a commentator that can add value to the event and w
ebcast some broadcasts so that sailors can bring their friends and give feedback as to which broadcast team did the best job for their non sailing friends) and offshore, which should be a multi camera live stream with lead up races so that every country can follow their team live - hopefully some country beyond the french will actually tune in.

Curling has made great progress - can we not do better than that? Who are the people, what is the game (must be well explained to the audience) and if you can't guarantee wind at the event - dont try to publish a tv schedule - just have an AWESOME summary show that fits in a time slot. Live coverage can happen via webcast.


 
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