USPHRF Appeal Process

Movable Ballast

Anarchist
6,201
250
San Diego
yes that is a problem. there are a few "non-stock" boats in Dago that have not reported the modifications or are sailing without the required equipment in the interest of weight.

 

Christian

Super Anarchist
Turd Sandwich said:
A three rating system like they do in SoCal should be standard. I would add in three adjustments for velocity and the world would be A OK

Modern light displacement boats created this mess for the most part and really magnified the horses for courses problems in PHRF

Back in the IOR days when for the most part only waterline length and sail area were the big factors cause they all were pigs sure made it a lot easier
The three rating system I would like to see is based on Light, Medium and heavy winds.

Not course

Buoy, Random Leg (very subjective) and Off the wind which is not very often.

Boats move differently in the wind strength not the course.

But that would mean measurements and all the stuff that makes a rating system fair and honest.

So Much for PHRF

As an ex PHRF Handicapper, the conclusion I came to is that if PHRF is working well, everyone gets screwed equally over the course of a few seasons. That's the best you can hope for in a mixed fleet with random weather and arbitrary courses.

Go sailing and have fun.
Spoken like a true Politician.

I hope you are not re-elected to your Crony Position.
That is most certainly NOT true

 

musicman

Anarchist
735
0
Waterford CT
sailman said:
The thread has produced some great on and offline discussions, with a lot of good information exchanged. Nothing shut down, I got all I needed and a little more out of it. Thanks again to all that responded.

Your pathetic crusade is your own psychosis to deal with, stay on the bike sailing has passed you bye.

Happy Cycling!

Will Museler
Well said and spoken like an adult.

 

jesposito

Super Anarchist
sailman said:
The thread has produced some great on and offline discussions, with a lot of good information exchanged. Nothing shut down, I got all I needed and a little more out of it. Thanks again to all that responded.

Your pathetic crusade is your own psychosis to deal with, stay on the bike sailing has passed you bye.

Happy Cycling!

Will Museler
I guess all the info you got on this thread went well for ya, that's why the appeal was dropped.

I have forgotten more about sailboat racing than you will you.

Yes there are cheaters in cycling, but when they get caught they get booted from the sport. {Lance Armstrong}

An adult would report all modifications done on a boat to the PHRF comm in a Corinthian manner and not in a Bill Clintonian fashion it seems to keep happeni ng with the same party.

Happy Eating!

 

jesposito

Super Anarchist
sailman said:
The color of the sky in your world must be bright an rosie! You should probably check your meds though. Nothing's been dropped, not sure how you would know any details unless....

The only parts of this equation that have been dishonest stares back at you in the mirror every morning, that and the other little individual that has trouble remaining employed.

You have forgotten a fair amount about sailboat racing; integrity and honesty come to mind.
Honesty starts with actually telling the PHRF comm in both Western LIS and ECSA that you changed the keel, rudder, and mast from a stock MORC 30 that is suppose to be as slow as a Santana 30/30 with a keel, mast and rudder from a sistership to the MORC Maxi Cowboy. Not just telling them that hey look at the morc rating this boat should rate even with a S2 9.1. then saying here are specs give me a measurement when the comm, has no idea the new owner made those changes.

I am sure there has been lead added to this boat since all this started

What's funny is a few years back when we spoke about lightening up Hustler, you went into whine mode about adding back in what ever weight would have come out, and now you are involved with this modified cheater boat.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

My integrity is fine, others you are involved with may not be.

I think you might of inhaled to much resin.

 

musicman

Anarchist
735
0
Waterford CT
sailman said:
The color of the sky in your world must be bright an rosie! You should probably check your meds though. Nothing's been dropped, not sure how you would know any details unless....

The only parts of this equation that have been dishonest stares back at you in the mirror every morning, that and the other little individual that has trouble remaining employed.

You have forgotten a fair amount about sailboat racing; integrity and honesty come to mind.
Honesty starts with actually telling the PHRF comm in both Western LIS and ECSA that you changed the keel, rudder, and mast from a stock MORC 30 that is suppose to be as slow as a Santana 30/30 with a keel, mast and rudder from a sistership to the MORC Maxi Cowboy. Not just telling them that hey look at the morc rating this boat should rate even with a S2 9.1. then saying here are specs give me a measurement when the comm, has no idea the new owner made those changes.

I am sure there has been lead added to this boat since all this started

What's funny is a few years back when we spoke about lightening up Hustler, you went into whine mode about adding back in what ever weight would have come out, and now you are involved with this modified cheater boat.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

My integrity is fine, others you are involved with may not be.

I think you might of inhaled to much resin.

The constant "drip drip drip" of character assassination you have been playing out against me goes back a long way to when I had the E 32. In some ways it's nice that you are fully public about it now vs back room chatter and behind the scenes action (although we both know you and your friend are working behind the scenes on this as well). The 32 I owned was not at all illegal and was inspected several times, I'm sorry that that doesn't fit the story you'd like to tell.

As to the proposed work to Hustler, lets talk about that. You in fact asked me what to do with the boat. I was very clear to you based on what your goals were what could be done to make the boat better. You made it very clear to me that the class was dead and that you were hoping to see more smaller boats race IRC (you in fact got an cert and did some IRC racing). The suggestions I made to you were for better optimizing the boat for IRC and they were not to make the boat radically light as you suggest, in fact they were to make it heavier but more with better weight centralization. A great example of the fact that we were looking to make it heavier is that you were very close to converting your boat on an inboard.

As to my boat the committees were not given old MORC certs to base the new rating against because that would not be fair, that is not what happened. The MORC certs I have are all different in that they have a wide range of weights due to the owners at the time trying to optimize for the rule. The committees were all given the specs of what the boat is as it sits right now, because that is what they were being asked to rate. Old MORC results and class splits were submitted to further help understand the range of boats and classes they sailed in. 2 of the 3 groups that have rated the boat see it very similarly the third way far off.

Your statement that I claim "the boat should rate the same as an S2 9.1" is false. I did not say this, I have said that the boat was designed to race in a group of MORC boats like the: 30/30, Capo 30, S2 9.1 etc. I did however say that I feel the boat should rate near the two 30/30 versions, and having sailed it against a 30/30 GP this summer that seems to be about right.

For the record in YRALIS the 30/30 RC has a base rating of 132, I did not ever ask for 132.

In my written summary of the boat I suggested that given the delta to known standard boats in YRALIS & other regions that the NY rating should be around 126. Considering the base rating of the MHOB J 29 is slower in NY at 114 this would be a reasonable delta and agree with the RI committee & be slightly less favorable than the CT group. If you were at the meeting you would know this.

It's interesting that a person who claims not to care about sailing any more is so fixated on this and attacking another persons character. Does not sound at all like someone who doesn't care or has no agenda....

 
Last edited by a moderator:

cjsalustro

Member
468
0
I guess I can comment now that I have been run over by you and Will multiple times on this thread because I happen to have a voice.

What I find so absurd in this is that l and others have the right to comment any way we feel we need and want too. Even if it goes against what you feel John, pretty much a debate, dont you think? It is your side that doesnt like what we have to say and thats ok. If you feel you are being attacked, well it is not. I and others (just not Espo) have a right to share our opinions and thoughts even if you dont agree with them. The most unfortunate part of this is simply we once all sailed and shared some really good times on the water and this EPIC side street verbal brawl needs to end.

YES, PHRF is built around simple measurements and a discussion group. Its imperfect, we all can agree to that, but everyone involved is doing their best to keep racing fair for EVERYONE. Thats why owners need to be 100 percent upfront and share every detail regardless of whether or not they think they need too.

Please respect the ones that are volunteering their time to make racing fair for the community. And let others have an opinion even if you feel strongly against it, which is so obvious. Let the ones around you and Will speak freely and openly. Do not try and silence the democracy. Let the community do their best to rate your boat to keep sailing fair. You have expressed your opinion and now let others have theirs.

I know its hard to have faith and understanding of this but in keeping racing as fair as possible, it is needed.

CJ

 

cjsalustro

Member
468
0
sailman said:
Interesting.

You are allowed your own opinion but not your own facts. Opinions are based on facts not lies and uneducated guesses. Best of luck.
Uneducated guess:

There in lies the problem with you. A committee does its best, but it seems like you lack the respect and trust for the ones that make there best efforst . Maybe it's best for you to sail in ORR. Just like you won't go to BIRW anymore.

Facts and lie's... that is why it is so important to divulge and fully report work so the facts come out! If you fully disclose the work that has been done then no one can assume something has been hidden.

 

green03

Member
301
18
Nah, that thing with your own facts, has now been voted a thing. So have at it. Who needs facts - or opionions? Beliefs, now those will get you everywhere.

 

musicman

Anarchist
735
0
Waterford CT
CJ, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the sport I earn my living in & it's volunteers.

Please explain who "we" is in your statement above:

"It is your side that doesnt like what we have to say and thats ok".

Thank you.

 

cjsalustro

Member
468
0
CJ, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the sport I earn my living in & it's volunteers.

Please explain who "we" is in your statement above:

"It is your side that doesnt like what we have to say and thats ok".

Thank you.
John,

I must say I differ on the respect fact.. respectfully. Just remember there are so many others that live their life in the marine industry like you.

We.... everyone outside your entourage.

The art of a debate, both sides disagree and find the best common ground if they can.

CJ

 




Top