Vendee Globe 2016?

[Doug Lord]

Foilers are as good upwind vmg speaking as any of the boats other than prb and sma.

The foils can go in and out. They are not fixed.

Hugo boss foils are longer and the boat is a foot narrower. Their foils are asymmetric tip and shaft. Everyone else has a symmetric shaft. They want the tip to do all the work and the shaft to just carry it, as low drag as possible, where Alex's use the entire foil to create rm and lift.

For this reason Hugo boss foils are probably the most powerful, but not quite as good as the others when closer to the wind, and slightly better broad reaching and running.

Maitre Coq had the down tips on their foils from the beginning. They are smaller and lower drag (most likely) than the others.

The limit to the foils is simply not to create enough power to break the mast. The boats have load cells in the foil cases and cap shrouds in owner to make sure. When they are close to the limit they are just retracted a bit which reduces load immediately.

Foilers?! You've got to be kidding......why would you say that? Not all boats that use foils are "foilers"-especially when they drag their ass all the time. This is the same level of development as the big tri's were at nearly 30 years ago using ama foils for foil assist to reduce displacement but nobody back then called them "foilers".

 

[longy]

Because the rest of the world is not a raving fanatic on the subject.

 

[Doug Lord]

It's like calling a 60's car with fins an "airplane" and just as silly. I keep asking: what will you call them when they really foil? I mean if they're foilers now what then??

 

[rmb]

Doug, I use the term foilers to differentiate from the boats with normal daggerboards. That's it.

 

[rmb]

The foils help all the time. If you retract the foil upwind in 10 knots, the boat heels over about 5 degrees more.

In terms of getting clear of the water it depends on the angle, but in about 15 knots beam reaching the boat will sit on the foil doing 18 or 19 out of the water to the keel.

 

[3to1]

wow, that's impressive, a lot of raw lifting happening there. guess it shouldn't be a surprise though, those foils aren't exactly small.

 

[Doug Lord]

Doug, I use the term foilers to differentiate from the boats with normal daggerboards. That's it.

You understand that but there appear to be many who think these boats actually foil. You could say "foil assist"-used for years to describe tri's using foils to reduce displacement-as opposed to tri's with "normal" daggerboards?

 

[staysail]

Seems people are arguing about using the words foils, "foilers" etc. in connection with Imocas which use appendages designed to provide a component of vertical lift.

To clarify it for myself I looked up a few definitions. See below. My conclusion: these seem perfectly appropriate words to use, that is unless you want to invent some new words with much narrower definitions than those already commonly accepted.

It would seem pedantic and probably incorrect to insist that the term foil can only be used if the entire hull is lifted out of the water. A power driven hydrofoil is still a hydrofoil and has foils when operating at speeds below those at which the entire hull is lifted out of the water..

Incidentally, Websters actually defines a "foiler" as "one who foils or frustrates". (!!!)

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

Simple Definition of hydrofoil

: a very fast boat that rises partly out of the water when moving at high speeds

Full Definition of hydrofoil

1 : a body similar to an airfoil but designed for action in or on water

2 : a motorboat that has metal plates or fins attached by struts fore and aft for lifting the hull clear of the water as speed is attained

Source: Oxford Dictionaries

hydrofoil, noun

1. A boat whose hull is fitted underneath with shaped vanes (foils) which lift the hull clear of the water at speed.

1.1Each of the foils of a hydrofoil.

Source: Wikipedia

hydrofoil

A hydrofoil is a lifting surface, or foil, that operates in water. They are similar in appearance and purpose to aerofoils used by aeroplanes. Boats that use hydrofoil technology are also simply termed hydrofoils. As a hydrofoil craft gains speed, the hydrofoils lift the boat's hull out of the water, decreasing drag and allowing greater speeds.

 

[Doug Lord]

In the days before foiling(to sail a boat that is completely lifted out of the water on hydrofoils) was all the rage, to say that a boat was foiling when part of it was still floating/planing was ridiculed and should be now. How do you differentiate between a boat that is actually foiling and one that is dragging its transom? Why should you?

Because language becomes jibberish if you don't.........

Orville and Jethro:

Hey, Orville what the hell that boat doin? That’s foilin man! How ya tell? See the daylight under the front end-that’s how you tell. But ,Orville what about the back end? Don’t worry your head none about that-its comin along……

 

[Sailbydate]

Doug, I use the term foilers to differentiate from the boats with normal daggerboards. That's it.

You understand that but there appear to be many who think these boats actually foil. You could say "foil assist"-used for years to describe tri's using foils to reduce displacement-as opposed to tri's with "normal" daggerboards?

You could. But there would be no point, because people understand what is meant by 'foilers' in the context of IMOCA, Doug. So fuck off with your semantics.

 

[mad]

Doug, I use the term foilers to differentiate from the boats with normal daggerboards. That's it.

You understand that but there appear to be many who think these boats actually foil. You could say "foil assist"-used for years to describe tri's using foils to reduce displacement-as opposed to tri's with "normal" daggerboards?

Is there no thread that Doug won't pollute??

 

[LionessRacing]

Origami foilers would put him and Brent together, that might be consuming.

 

[bigrpowr]

In the days before foiling(to sail a boat that is completely lifted out of the water on hydrofoils) was all the rage, to say that a boat was foiling when part of it was still floating/planing was ridiculed and should be now. How do you differentiate between a boat that is actually foiling and one that is dragging its transom? Why should you?

Because language becomes jibberish if you don't.........

Orville and Jethro:

Hey, Orville what the hell that boat doin? That’s foilin man! How ya tell? See the daylight under the front end-that’s how you tell. But ,Orville what about the back end? Don’t worry your head none about that-its comin along……

post pics of your " foiler" with you on board ! it would give you a lot more credibitlity .

 

[Bruno]

Thank you. So the 'class spec' mast is the limiter. Any idea what 'lift off' wind & boat speeds are?

+1

 

[TomTom]

Hi, a last minute opportunity has come up, so that I might be able to go again to the start of the Vendée Globe. Last time I managed to book on one of the official boats going out to see the start, but these are now all booked out. Does anyone have any ideas about options to go out to the start at all? Any other boat companies that run tours? Private yachts?

Thanks for your help!

 

[terrafirma]

In the days before foiling(to sail a boat that is completely lifted out of the water on hydrofoils) was all the rage, to say that a boat was foiling when part of it was still floating/planing was ridiculed and should be now. How do you differentiate between a boat that is actually foiling and one that is dragging its transom? Why should you?

Because language becomes jibberish if you don't.........

Orville and Jethro:

Hey, Orville what the hell that boat doin? That’s foilin man! How ya tell? See the daylight under the front end-that’s how you tell. But ,Orville what about the back end? Don’t worry your head none about that-its comin along……

Doug the whole world is calling these boats foilers because they have foils. These boats are never going to be completely out of the water all the time but nevertheless they are a type of foiling. Perhaps you use the word in the purest sense but the Vendee Globe world is calling them foilers irrespective. I don't think it matters that they are not always out of the water. The AC boats were the same last time around and they were called foiling cats. Next AC they should be always out of the water or at least 90% of the time.

 

[Haligonian Winterr]

Yep, we'll be there! www.spartanoceanracing.com, we should be staying in the commercial port beside Port Olona, a stone's throw away from the Race Village. There will be accoms on the boat (40Eu a night) and spots open to view the start on Sunday (450Eu per head) with wine & cheese etc. Contact through the website, and come sail to Lanzarote too if you'd like.

20 spots open for the daysail, 6 bunks open for hire while we're in the port, and 6 spots open for the sail to Lanzarote (~7d).

And yes, we have bought an ad!

HW

Hi, a last minute opportunity has come up, so that I might be able to go again to the start of the Vendée Globe. Last time I managed to book on one of the official boats going out to see the start, but these are now all booked out. Does anyone have any ideas about options to go out to the start at all? Any other boat companies that run tours? Private yachts?

Thanks for your help!

 

[nkb]

Hi, a last minute opportunity has come up, so that I might be able to go again to the start of the Vendée Globe. Last time I managed to book on one of the official boats going out to see the start, but these are now all booked out. Does anyone have any ideas about options to go out to the start at all? Any other boat companies that run tours? Private yachts?

Thanks for your help!

There are a couple of large boats going out selling individual spots for about 200 euros. Fast running out though.

 

[Doug Lord]

In the days before foiling(to sail a boat that is completely lifted out of the water on hydrofoils) was all the rage, to say that a boat was foiling when part of it was still floating/planing was ridiculed and should be now. How do you differentiate between a boat that is actually foiling and one that is dragging its transom? Why should you?

Because language becomes jibberish if you don't.........

Orville and Jethro:

Hey, Orville what the hell that boat doin? That’s foilin man! How ya tell? See the daylight under the front end-that’s how you tell. But ,Orville what about the back end? Don’t worry your head none about that-its comin along……

Doug the whole world is calling these boats foilers because they have foils. These boats are never going to be completely out of the water all the time but nevertheless they are a type of foiling. Perhaps you use the word in the purest sense but the Vendee Globe world is calling them foilers irrespective. I don't think it matters that they are not always out of the water. The AC boats were the same last time around and they were called foiling cats. Next AC they should be always out of the water or at least 90% of the time.

In 34 the AC boats flew upwind and downwind most of the time. In 35 they will too except in lighter air. In no case did the AC boats "foil" while dragging their ass like the foil assist 60's do. Thats not foiling-but it could be with a small rule change or two.

 

[Sailbydate]

In the days before foiling(to sail a boat that is completely lifted out of the water on hydrofoils) was all the rage, to say that a boat was foiling when part of it was still floating/planing was ridiculed and should be now. How do you differentiate between a boat that is actually foiling and one that is dragging its transom? Why should you?

Because language becomes jibberish if you don't.........

Orville and Jethro:

Hey, Orville what the hell that boat doin? That’s foilin man! How ya tell? See the daylight under the front end-that’s how you tell. But ,Orville what about the back end? Don’t worry your head none about that-its comin along……

Doug the whole world is calling these boats foilers because they have foils. These boats are never going to be completely out of the water all the time but nevertheless they are a type of foiling. Perhaps you use the word in the purest sense but the Vendee Globe world is calling them foilers irrespective. I don't think it matters that they are not always out of the water. The AC boats were the same last time around and they were called foiling cats. Next AC they should be always out of the water or at least 90% of the time.

In 34 the AC boats flew upwind and downwind most of the time. In 35 they will too except in lighter air. In no case did the AC boats "foil" while dragging their ass like the foil assist 60's do. Thats not foiling-but it could be with a small rule change or two.

And, after those one or two rule changes, how would you suggest IMOCA 60's handle Southern Ocean or North Atlantic swells while 'fully foiling', Doug? I don't think canting foils 15 degrees will solve that one, do you?