Vendee Globe 2016?

Team_GBR

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The Medal Race
A question for all you "experts", which I don't mean in a negative way. You guys know far more than me!

I watch what is going on at the front of the fleet and I understand what happens in the doldrums, but it seems to me that whenever it goes really light AT has an advantage. His figures look so much better. Is it my imagination, just luck of the doldrums or, as I am beginning to suspect, has ALC got an issue we don't know about. It feels to me like he might have a hole in his sail wardrobe. In a long race like this, it would be very easy to blow up a sail like a code 0 and leave a hole in your performance capabilities. An occasional difference due to local conditions I can accept, but I think I am seeing a pattern. Thoughts?

 

stief

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A question for all you "experts", which I don't mean in a negative way. You guys know far more than me!

I watch what is going on at the front of the fleet and I understand what happens in the doldrums, but it seems to me that whenever it goes really light AT has an advantage. His figures look so much better. Is it my imagination, just luck of the doldrums or, as I am beginning to suspect, has ALC got an issue we don't know about. It feels to me like he might have a hole in his sail wardrobe. In a long race like this, it would be very easy to blow up a sail like a code 0 and leave a hole in your performance capabilities. An occasional difference due to local conditions I can accept, but I think I am seeing a pattern. Thoughts?
no expert, but the experts also seem to be looking at hull shape.

 

jack_sparrow

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Really light BP is sligjtly quicker,.Iight moderate HB gets up foiling...well the port one anyway..sooner so quicker than BP. As it gets fresher beyond moderate the speed difference diminishes to the point where they are about equal again.

 
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stief

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Since Cape Horn, so many have been confidently predicting Alex's demise. Fun to watch the nervousness when he keeps on surprising the doubters. Even if Armel does win, he'll only win over a wounded boat. :)

I think Alex 'won' the race already, and hope to see that in the Canal.

I'm a big AT fan and really would like to see HB win this thing, but which ever boat gets home first is the truly deserved winner. This is not David v Goliath. It is Goliath v Goliath. It is because I admire so much the way that AT sails that if BP stays ahead then he will have 'won' the race in all aspects of that word. I'm sure all the boats and skippers are carrying performance degrading damage at the moment.
Yes. The name on the trophy is the winner. Everything else is 'luck' or 'coulda woulda shoulda' . Sorry--thought that was a given.

 

Haji

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As far as the recent reports go, it is difficult to really assess because we don't have real wind data from the boats. Gribs are notoriously unreliable in the doldrums

 
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the Gribs have been total fiction for the last few days and given the mess in the north atlantic I'm not putting any faith in the tracker predictions anymore. It's a 2 horse race but i've no idea who the winner will be.

 

Pierre S

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60 Norff
Well well well! Although Alex has surprisingly reduced the gap to less than 100 nm (and still gaining), the 168 hr Remora/forss project continues to grow to almost 400 nm. ....
stief Remora/forss's 400nm split relies heavily on Armel clearing the doldrums on or before the next sked at 0400 and Alex staying glued. Looking at tbeir actual numbers versus forecasts that may well not happen. [...]
Agree--and AFAIK, they use the same polar for all. Gives a great way to compare forecasts, and actual/ projected tracks.

Since Cape Horn, so many have been confidently predicting Alex's demise. Fun to watch the nervousness when he keeps on surprising the doubters. Even if Armel does win, he'll only win over a wounded boat. :)

I think Alex 'won' the race already, and hope to see that in the Canal.
We don't really know what damage there has been on BP. At this stage, Armel would probably settle quite happily for "just" the conventional win.

Fascinating race all the way. I wasn't a big AT fan previously, but I must say he has won me over this edition: he has put together a great program with a fast boat that he has sailed very well while remaining one of the most engaging communicators in the race (along with Conrad and a few others).

 

bad sandwhich

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Cant be fucked to look back through this thread after being in a place with no internet for what feels like an eternity....

Did Alex have a broken foil or was it all bullshit?

 
I still wonder why HB is not using at least the stub of his starboard foil? AT says "No foil" rather than "broken foil" or "partial foil". Also strange that there are still no photos.

We know from the videos (Stewart Hosford & Ross Daniel) the other day that the design of HBs foils is so that most of the lift comes from the shaft and only side force comes from the tip. Ross Daniel even says in that video that is one of the reasons they went with the design: "we are not so reliant on the foil tip ... if it breaks and there is some shaft left, then it can still be used...". We also know it was 30% retracted when the UFO happened, leaving a stub sticking out when it broke, so there is some shaft left, maybe as much as 40%.

Thus I think it's just a bit of gamesmanship and that HB is using a little bit of foil on port. Given that they had already planned for partial foil sailing, I'm guessing that: a) they have glued on a spare tiplet, to reduce the drag when they do use the stub but not big enough to give any side force; B) they are able to extend further than normal when there is not as much force on the foil, so perhaps they have up to 50% of usable shaft.


Note I'm not saying it is a bad thing if they have kept this secret - no obligation to tell and I kind of like the way the mystery allows us fans intrigued one way or another. Guess we'll know in a week or so.... but I'd kind of rather the race went on a bit longer and we could keep circling around the drain hole of this topic a bit more!
cheers

 

XTR

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John_Wick_Movie_ESM_Icon1.jpg


 

Varan

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Sure would have liked to have seen how PRB would have faired going up the Atlantic. She did well going down and Riou was confident a non-foiler would have the advantage from the Horn to the finish (Seahorse, Jan. 2017). It still hurts me he is not there. Sure hope he gives it another shot.

 

jack_sparrow

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Clint would be in the foetal position calling for his mommy ...while hiding his pencil. Now if only JW could sail.


 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
I still wonder why HB is not using at least the stub of his starboard foil? AT says "No foil" rather than "broken foil" or "partial foil". Also strange that there are still no photos.

We know from the videos (Stewart Hosford & Ross Daniel) the other day that the design of HBs foils is so that most of the lift comes from the shaft and only side force comes from the tip. Ross Daniel even says in that video that is one of the reasons they went with the design: "we are not so reliant on the foil tip ... if it breaks and there is some shaft left, then it can still be used...". We also know it was 30% retracted when the UFO happened, leaving a stub sticking out when it broke, so there is some shaft left, maybe as much as 40%.

Thus I think it's just a bit of gamesmanship and that HB is using a little bit of foil on port. Given that they had already planned for partial foil sailing, I'm guessing that: a) they have glued on a spare tiplet, to reduce the drag when they do use the stub but not big enough to give any side force; B) they are able to extend further than normal when there is not as much force on the foil, so perhaps they have up to 50% of usable shaft.

Note I'm not saying it is a bad thing if they have kept this secret - no obligation to tell and I kind of like the way the mystery allows us fans intrigued one way or another. Guess we'll know in a week or so.... but I'd kind of rather the race went on a bit longer and we could keep circling around the drain hole of this topic a bit more!

cheers
Broken foil stub equals mangled mess equals drag.

 

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