Vendee Globe 2020

TheDragon

Super Anarchist
3,137
1,089
East central Illinois
JLC mentioned life ring "banana" . I think it is same as the one used in mini transat. The brand is Silzig



Good find. Like most, I have an old-fashioned horseshoe on a line on the pushpit. I recall Web Chiles joking about getting checked for one by the Coast Guard, as he was sailing solo and would have nobody to thow it to him. But it could be useful for rescuing someone else.

 

troll99

Anarchist
902
455
Good find. Like most, I have an old-fashioned horseshoe on a line on the pushpit. I recall Web Chiles joking about getting checked for one by the Coast Guard, as he was sailing solo and would have nobody to thow it to him. But it could be useful for rescuing someone else.
you could pick up a person with the sling in a helicopter. Quite practical. 

 

troll99

Anarchist
902
455
TPS suit

https://www.letelegramme.fr/economie/revoila-la-combinaison-tps-08-07-2020-12579146.php

The video in the link shows how to dress up. The orange is the newer version.

securite-maritime-guy-cotten-combinaison-de-survie-1.jpg


7869_2_FR_original.jpg


 
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Rafael

Member
451
253
Alboran Sea
Kevin could fix that 

930ba6c9c4b67cde3ba49822213f8b63.jpg
Don't know if this is a bit offTopic the Vendee, alltough you brought me quite some good memories... My father teached me how to fish them since I was a little kid (with alive squid!) :D Some years before the Japaneese invasion and Bluefin sushi frenzy market clusterfuck... in calmed days, you could see them coming breaking the surface as dolphins! (hundreds of them) Looks like this photo is from NovaScotia or near... thanks

 
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JonRowe

Super Anarchist
1,884
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Offshore.
JLC mentioned life ring "banana" . I think it is same as the one used in mini transat. The brand is Silzig

Mini's are not required to have that sling, but a lot do. We're required to have a horseshoe with drogue, light etc, a sling with a 26m line, and a dan buoy.

 

yl75

Super Anarchist
3,154
1,545
France
Don't know if this is a bit offTopic the Vendee, alltough you brought me quite some good memories... My father teached me how to fish them since I was a little kid (with alive squid!) :D Some years before the Japaneese invasion and Bluefin sushi frenzy market clusterfuck... In calmed days, you could see them coming breaking the surface as dolphins! (hundreds of them) Looks like this photo is from NovaScotia or near... thanks
But now there are all these "fattening farms" outside of Spain right ?

 

Bebmoumoute

Anarchist
535
1,101
Southampton, UK
An interview with Vincent Riou, PRB previous skipper, and also the one that rescued Le Cam back in 2008 (https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/vendee-globe/vincent-riou-meme-dans-un-endroit-difficile-un-bateau-ne-peut-pas-casser-en-deux-01-12-2020-12665767.php)

Sorry it's not great, but the original material is kind of shit.

Vincent Riou, you were closely involved with Kévin Escoffier’s preparation, as you were the previous owner of the boat. How difficult was last night ?

It wasn’t an easy night, very stressfull until 2 am. It was tough to hear the news in the middle of the afternoon. We were so glad when Jean found him the first time because we knew he was in his survival suit and that the liferaft was in good shape. Afterwards, when the night came, we ot concerned again « fuck, fuck ». The conclusion was positive, but it wasn’t a simple night. We are all in different places in Britanny. I follwed the whole thing closely. I had a contact with the race committee and quickly I was able to talk to Jean. We were able to talk about the situation.

How is it possible for an IMOCA to break in half ?

I am in despair. It must be the addition of several factors. We don’t have any explanations . We are really surprised as we have been working on this boat for 10 years. I started reinforcing the structure in 2018 when foils were added. We put more reinforcements in 2019 when Kevin joined the team. Wi re-assessed the whole structure last winter as it became clear that lots of boats were having structural issues. Kevin managed the process, he is one of the most knowledgeable engineers in France when it comes to racing yachts. I happily handed the process over to him – he is the best.

Do you think the failure could have been caused by adding foils on a non-foiler ?

We knew that adding foils was going to modify the behaviour of the boat. We are not the only ones to do this. Isabelle Joschke MACF was the same. This morning, I had a chat with Vincent Lauriot-Prévost (naval architect and co-founder of VPLP). We shared everything, there is no competition between teams at this point. We want to get to the bottom of this, but we cannot find any reason why it broke. I am really disappointed because if we hadn’t done it right, the structure would have been too light. But the boat had tons of structural studies performed ! And it was checked by several people. The initial design was done by Verdier, but as he is not that available, we worked with Gsea Design. We did a full structural assessment back in 2015 as well.

The boat was damaged back in September when it hit a floting object, did this weaken the boat ?

After this incident, the boat was lifted out and the keel removed. Kevin’s own structural expert, Emmanuel Le Borgne, came and inspected the whole boat. He also did 2 full inspections last year as well, which was our new standard procedure. The inspection lasted a whole 3 days. We only found secondary order damage, nothing on the main structure. We did it right ! We all had collisions before. I am really annoyed because we di dit very seriously.

The southern oceans are tough, did this have an impact ?

The problem is that they were right in the path of the low pressure. But even in that sort of place, a boat should not brek in half. Damage can happen,  but not a catastrophic failure like yesterday. The rescue was a bit of a miracle.

 
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Rafael

Member
451
253
Alboran Sea
Don't know if this is a bit offTopic the Vendee, alltough you brought me quite some good memories... My father teached me how to fish them since I was a little kid (with alive squid!) :D Some years before the Japaneese invasion and Bluefin sushi frenzy market clusterfuck... in calmed days, you could see them coming breaking the surface as dolphins! (hundreds of them) Looks like this photo is from NovaScotia or near... thanks


But now there are all these "fattening farms" outside of Spain right ?
Yes, just like pigs or cows -_- ... now they capture them really young (5 to 20 kg) and feed them as hell to gain volume quickly in closed circular nets, pretty sad. 25 years ago the sea boiled with them in their migration from the Atlantic (going in and returning out in spring and fall) to their procreation areas inside the Mediterranean

 
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JMore

Member
153
67
UK
So having already suited up was washed overboard together with liferaft (while trying to secure it) with one grab bag (backpack), distress case, vessels epirb and AIS PLB (attached to suit).

That could have so gone to shit so easily.

- It all happened exactly as it did BUT he was not suited.

- He got washed overboard AFTER securing raft.  Boat and liferaft go to the bottom. 
This is the thing that really struck me when reading Kevin’s interviews earlier today.  That wave broke over him at exactly the right time.  Any earlier and he would either not have had the raft or EPIRB to hand or he would not have been wearing his suit.  Any later and he would have managed to tie the raft and EPIRB to the boat and they would have stayed exactly where they were when he was washed off.

Such incredibly fine margins and a good deal of luck involved, on top of good seamanship, preparation and ability to keep a clear head in such daunting circumstances.

Really glad it ended the way it did and well done to all those involved in the rescue, especially JLC.

 
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AnotherSailor

Super Anarchist
1,276
403
SF Bay
Vincent Riou, you were closely involved with Kévin Escoffier’s preparation, as you were the previous owner of the boat. How difficult was last night ?

It wasn’t an easy night, very stressfull until 2 am. It was tough to hear the news in the middle of the afternoon. We were so glad when Jean found him the first time because we knew he was in his survival suit and that the liferaft was in good shape. Afterwards, when the night came, we ot concerned again « fuck, fuck ». The conclusion was positive, but it wasn’t a simple night. We are all in different places in Britanny. I follwed the whole thing closely. I had a contact with the race committee and quickly I was able to talk to Jean. We were able to talk about the situation.

How is it possible for an IMOCA to break in half ?

I am in despair. It must be the addition of several factors. We don’t have any explanations . We are really surprised as we have been working on this boat for 10 years. I started reinforcing the structure in 2018 when foils were added. We put more reinforcements in 2019 when Kevin joined the team. Wi re-assessed the whole structure last winter as it became clear that lots of boats were having structural issues. Kevin managed the process, he is one of the most knowledgeable engineers in France when it comes to racing yachts. I happily handed the process over to him – he is the best.

Do you think the failure could have been caused by adding foils on a non-foiler ?

We knew that adding foils was going to modify the behaviour of the boat. We are not the only ones to do this. Isabelle Joschke MACF was the same. This morning, I had a chat with Vincent Lauriot-Prévost (naval architect and co-founder of VPLP). We shared everything, there is no competition between teams at this point. We want to get to the bottom of this, but we cannot find any reason why it broke. I am really disappointed because if we hadn’t done it right, the structure would have been too light. But the boat had tons of structural studies performed ! And it was checked by several people. The initial design was done by Verdier, but as he is not that available, we worked with Gsea Design. We did a full structural assessment back in 2015 as well.

The boat was damaged back in September when it hit a floting object, did this weaken the boat ?

After this incident, the boat was lifted out and the keel removed. Kevin’s own structural expert, Emmanuel Le Borgne, came and inspected the whole boat. He also did 2 full inspections last year as well, which was our new standard procedure. The inspection lasted a whole 3 days. We only found secondary order damage, nothing on the main structure. We did it right ! We all had collisions before. I am really annoyed because we di dit very seriously.

The southern oceans are tough, did this have an impact ?

The problem is that they were right in the path of the low pressure. But even in that sort of place, a boat should not brek in half. Damage can happen,  but not a catastrophic failure like yesterday. The rescue was a bit of a miracle.
Thanks for that! They obviously are stunned by the boat breaking/folding in half. Other foilers should be worried, and it seems they all throttled back a bit today. One thing that stands out to me in the Riou interview is the multiple steps with different people involved in this project. Adding foils, an initial designer who was "not that available," and two others following that. On the one hand multiple eyes and calculations, on the other hand this introduces the risk of a lack of oversight from A-Z. 

 

Miffy

Super Anarchist
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All the press was on Juan K when the foil modification on PRB was rolled out w Arkea P - why is Verdier VPLP & Gsea showing up in the press about it? 

 
All the press was on Juan K when the foil modification on PRB was rolled out w Arkea P - why is Verdier VPLP & Gsea showing up in the press about it? 
Juan K has nothing to do with PRB.  PRB was designed by Guillaume Verdier and VPLP.  Gsea is a engineering company in France that specialises in structural engineering.

 

Varan

Super Anarchist
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You do make shit up Randumb. 

4 seconds was "foldaboat".

Why would anyone say that was sinking time when he wasn't even suited and from the raft he was still looking at the bow pointing skyward.
And it could still be floating, pointing skyward for all we know.

 

Autonomous

Turgid Member
4,353
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PNW
The foil AoA inversion occurs when the boat bow hits a wave in front, that tries to rapidly lift the bow. The rapid pitch rotation causes a vertical velocity component at the foil that inverts the foil AoA, causing the foil to create a downwards force and try to counter the bow lifting. Result is longitudinal bending and torsion of the hull girder.

This effect is exaggerated because the stern is in the water, and thus is able to resist the pitching rotation. The stern is then the pivot point, not the foil, hence the vertical velocity component at the foil. Would not occur in the same way for a fully foiling boat, as stern could sink more easily.
Agreed, then you get some pyramiding-plunging wave behind a big hole like some us have seen and predictions & safety factors go out the window. 

The learning curve is steep. maybe keep the radical foils near shore for a short time before loosing them on the Southern Ocean again?

 

Miffy

Super Anarchist
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Juan K has nothing to do with PRB.  PRB was designed by Guillaume Verdier and VPLP.  Gsea is a engineering company in France that specialises in structural engineering.
PRB when it was launched was Verdier-VPLP; but they had no involvement in her redesign as a foiler. I remember the 2018-2019 build up when she was in CDK and came out as Arkea P as a training-dev boat while Arkea P was still in construction. All the press was Juan K at that point. They said he did the work for the foil casing/bearing integration. 

 
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troll99

Anarchist
902
455
PRB when it was launched was Verdier-VPLP; but they had no involvement in her redesign as a foiler. I remember the 2018-2019 build up when she was in CDK and came out as Arkea P as a training-dev boat while Arkea P was still in construction. All the press was Juan K at that point. They said he did the work for the foil casing/bearing integration. 
A few people are involved according to the interview. 

Why the obsession over Juan K? Did he fuck your girlfriend?

 

Varan

Super Anarchist
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Juan K has nothing to do with PRB.  PRB was designed by Guillaume Verdier and VPLP.  Gsea is a engineering company in France that specialises in structural engineering.
"The fifth PRB, she is the sistership to the first VPLP-Verdier designs. Built from the same mould as Safran, this IMOCA was even lighter on her launch in October 2009 and finished 5th in the Route du Rhum 2010.

Skipper Vincent Riou went on to win the Fastnet Race 2011 aboard her and then had to retire from the Transat Jacques Vabre (with Hugues Destremau) following cracking in a watertight bulkhead. Her performance in the Vendée Globe was not dazzling either since the monohull hit a metal buoy offshore of Brazil whilst the solo sailor was in the top trio! 2013 would see victory go to PRB (with Jean Le Cam) during the Transat Jacques Vabre, a success story repeated two years down the line (with Sébastien Col). In the meantime, the boat underwent a makeover, however the Route du Rhum course did not suit her and she had to pull into Port-la-Forêt. 2nd in The Transat 2016, Vincent Riou secured 5th place in the New York-Vendée, but had to retire from the Vendée Globe after colliding with a UFO in the South Atlantic. The monohull got a boost in 2018 with foils designed by Juan Kouyoumdjian taking her to 4th place in the Route du Rhum, prior to a passage in the colours of Arkéa-Paprec in 2019 to win the Bermudes 1000 Race with Seb Simon as skipper. The latter passed on the batten to Kevin Escoffier who finished 2nd in the Transat Jacques Vabre with Nicolas Lunven."

From Vendee Globe.

 

Chasm

Super Anarchist
2,559
387
There will be questions about the structure. As designed, build and then modified over time.
The bad part is that information about what happened is basically limited to what Kevin saw. The good part is that there is no reason to hold back with construction data. All skippers and the class are very interested in finding out what went wrong.

The other area for me is the packing list for the rafts. If there is once again the risk that a boat will fail that fast relying on grab bags does not seem sufficient. (IIRC the VOR had a lot more stuff packed. Can't be bothered to find the list right now.)
A call or text message from Kevin with what he thought at the time "I'm ok and in my raft. Lets try again tomorrow with more light and better weather." would have removed a lot of stress all around. Esp. when he can send a message with his GPS coordinates. Say a Garmin inReach or something similar.
How about both an AIS PLB and personal EPIRB fixed to the survival suit? Certainly one of the places where they make sense.

 
You are right with the sort of equipment the Vendee boats appear to carry but the technology is available - just look at the coverage from the Volvo boats. Remember the Vestas grounding for example. It doesn't have to be edited on board but could be sent off to a centralised video suite to be polished up.

By the way I love your screen name. I used to keep one of my boats at Ardfern and have been in the Gulf a couple of times - always at slack water i hasten to add but many many years ago i witnessed the whirlpool in all its glory. I was on a Venture Scout weekend on Scarba and watched it from the raised beaches above. It was real scary stuff even though i was on dry land.
Ha - now I've gone and wasted an hour goofing off watching old VOR videos! :rolleyes:

You're right that the VOR footage was awesome, and the tech  to make yacht racing a spectator sport has increased dramatically.  I remember an old America's cup that was just helicopter footage of two sailboats going in a straight line.  So when the 2000(or thereabouts) AC put cameras on the boats, it was much more engaging.

But (and forgive me if this might seem like I'm moving the goalposts), even the best sailing footage is hard for a general audience to understand just by watching it.  It's not that people couldn't understand sailing - Cricket and the NFL draw huge audiences, and they're nigh-incomprehensible.  It's probably just a matter of critical mass - cricket and NFL fans learned it at the knee of Dads who were fans.  Sailing is way behind that curve, outside of places like France.  Even with the new video tech, it's likely going to be a long slow process to engage more non-sailing spectators.

Like Rafael said upthread, everyone has a car, and can understand an F1 crashing into a wall and exploding into flame.  I rewatched the Vestas grounding and I suspect that most non-sailors would just see a bunch of guys stumbling around in the dark and swearing.  The boat accident that did make the news this week was Florida Man here.  Not a story of great seamanship, but the picture is dramatic.

image.png

PS.  I haven't been to the W coast of Scotland (yet).  I chose the name after a very nice single malt that I can only afford to drink on special occasions.

 

Dog

Super Anarchist
37,940
442
The foil AoA inversion occurs when the boat bow hits a wave in front, that tries to rapidly lift the bow. The rapid pitch rotation causes a vertical velocity component at the foil that inverts the foil AoA, causing the foil to create a downwards force and try to counter the bow lifting. Result is longitudinal bending and torsion of the hull girder.

This effect is exaggerated because the stern is in the water, and thus is able to resist the pitching rotation. The stern is then the pivot point, not the foil, hence the vertical velocity component at the foil. Would not occur in the same way for a fully foiling boat, as stern could sink more easily.
Interesting...It's not hard to imagine that circumstance generating huge loads. Maybe the foils need to be sacrificial.

 

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