Vendee Globe 2020

Rainbow Spirit

Anarchist
948
117
Sydney, Aus
I see that Yes We Cam! is continuing east, so I take it that Kevin will be dropped off at the Kerguelen Islands? That in itself will be an 'interesting' operation.

Will Kevin now just be a passenger and not allowed to assist Jean?

 

AnotherSailor

Super Anarchist
1,276
403
SF Bay
Interesting...It's not hard to imagine that circumstance generating huge loads. Maybe the foils need to be sacrificial.
Thanks for quoting that insight. I missed it earlier. I guess it is somewhat like flying an airplane with the nose down, but then in water that pushes the bow/nose up... 

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
This Kevin fellah is one hell of a sailor. 

He mentioned he only had a grab bag on his back and a distress case when he was swept overboard with the raft. 

He activates raft and climbs in. Makes it sound so simple.  

I have a 7 day grab bag, it's a backpack, and it weighs about 25kg.

If it's anything like mine, having that on your back and holding a distress case, activating a liferaft and then climbing in??

The guy is a machine. 

I'd challenge you to do that in a pool , let alone in 30+ knots and 5 mtr swells.   

 
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AnotherSailor

Super Anarchist
1,276
403
SF Bay
I see that Yes We Cam! is continuing east, so I take it that Kevin will be dropped off at the Kerguelen Islands? That in itself will be an 'interesting' operation.

Will Kevin now just be a passenger and not allowed to assist Jean?
Yes, this has been announced already. He will be transferred to a ship in the vicinity of Kerguelen around the 7th.

He is not allowed to assist indeed.

 

Don

Super Anarchist
1,105
43
Melbourne
Firstly, some great seamanship, coordination, and everyone is not just alive but uninjured. That says a lot about the sailors and the gear used.

The analysis of the incident will be very interesting. Much has already been said about the hydodynamic loads on the hull, but that is only part of the story. What about the rigging loads?

With the bow under water, the inverted AoA of the foil, and the downward pressure on the mast step from the rig load, and the backstay torsional load trying to lift and twist the stern. Remember running backstays are not anchoured on the centreline.

There are so many inputs to analyse, a far more complex interaction than a motor car hitting a wall.

 
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This Kevin fellah is one hell of a sailor. 

He mentioned he only had a grab bag on his back and a distress case when he was swept overboard with the raft. 

He activates raft and climbs in. Makes it sound so simple.  

I have a 7 day grab bag, it's a backpack, and it weighs about 25kg.

If it's anything like mine, having that on your back and holding a distress case, activating a liferaft and then climbing in??

The guy is a machine. 

I'd challenge you to do that in a pool , let alone in 30+ knots and 5 mtr swells.   
Kevin did mention his fitness was paramount to making it into the liferaft and Jean's boat later.

I did the life raft climbing in a flat pool with no wind for the survival training, it was horrible and I knew then ì would simply die in adverse conditions.

 

minca3

Member
280
255
How much food does Jean le Cam have on board?  If Kevin is lifted or transferred off, but stays on for a few days, will Jean end up hungry on the way North?
Nah. He will put Kevin on the sail stack as ballast so he can fly bigger sails. By the time he drops off Kevin on the Kerguelen Islands he will be leading the fleet. Once back in the North Atlantic he will realize that bringing food for 80 days (and vine for 90) was all wrong as he will win the race in 60 days.

 

nroose

Super Anarchist
5,253
297
Berkeley
Seems like this is the guy you want rescuing you in the Southern Ocean.

Screen Shot 2020-12-01 at 2.11.36 PM.jpg

 
Radical greens is just a smear word by people who don't want to be held accountable for the damage they make to our environment.
No, you can perfectly be aware and accountable for the damage humanity as a society is doing for the environment, and still be perfectly aware of the scores of radical ignorant fanatics riding the wave of environmentalism without a clue of what they are doing, other than gathering taxpayer's money that will go to some rich ex politicians and  their satellite acolytes.

 

Laurent

Super Anarchist
2,301
1,964
Houston
This Kevin fellah is one hell of a sailor. 

He mentioned he only had a grab bag on his back and a distress case when he was swept overboard with the raft. 

He activates raft and climbs in. Makes it sound so simple.  

I have a 7 day grab bag, it's a backpack, and it weighs about 25kg.

If it's anything like mine, having that on your back and holding a distress case, activating a liferaft and then climbing in??

The guy is a machine. 

I'd challenge you to do that in a pool , let alone in 30+ knots and 5 mtr swells.   
There was in one of the previous (dozen) pages a post with a video of Kevin shirtless (fimed in the Doldrums I believe???) .

The poster even commented that the video was "for the ladies"...

Let's just say that the guy is fit... Built like a bodybuilder (almost)!

 

Herman

Super Anarchist
1,848
825
The Netherlands
YES.

From the different interviews in French, including the one during the daily newscast, I got the following:

He could not take the liferaft inside the boat, already under water.

I wanted to take the liferaft which is secured in the aft/cockpit part of the boat. He also stated that from his past experience with Groupama (or is it Banque Populaire???) he knows that the boat EPIRB, located inside the boat, does not always emit reliably because of all the carbon surounding it; so he was trying to attach it to the outside of the boat (I believe on a stanchion).

I do not know all the technicalities on safety beacon devices, so please forgive me if my words are not 100% accurate, but he also clearly stated that he has his "personal EPIRB" ALWAYS on him; it is in his foulies trousers pocket all the time. So when he had done his survival suit, on top of his foulies, he had that personnal EPIRB with him (I believe this is the one associated with the AIS signal? so shorter range).

He also stated that for safety reason, he does not keep the survival suit packed away; it is always accessible, I assume somewhere near the companionway...

HE DID NOT CHOSE TO JUMP INTO THE LIFE RAFT.

While he was retrieving the aft cockpit liferaft and the boat EPIRB and trying to secure everything on deck, a wave swept him away, with the life raft... So no choice, he inflated the liferaft and climbed into it. He then activated the boat EPIRB (or is it activated automatically if submerged for too long?) and his personal EPIRB.

He also explained that he wanted originally to stay with the boat (before he got thrown overboard)... but he was not sure which part of the boat would sink last, between the front and the rear. He knows that there are compartment and floatability integrated in the design, but the aft part of the boat has the keel attached to it; will it float if the front half is gone??? This dilemna got answered when he ended up in the water anyway...
Thanks for that summary.

Btw the personal EPIRB is called a Personal Locator Beacon or PLB. The difference is that an EPIRB has transmitter that can reach satellites and can thus relay a mayday worldwide to a station that will alert boats in the vicinity. A PLB is an small AIS device and has a limited coverage, as the PLB / AIS is at sea level, and has smaller power. And with a rough seastate the signal can be extra hindered. Normally AIS antennes are on top of the mast which provides, depending on mast height, weather/seastate and inclination of the boat, for a class B AIS a coverage of roughly 10-15 nm. A PLB in a rough sea at sea level would be a couple of miles if you are very lucky imho. 

So Kevin was in possession of the EPIRB which he activated after sending a whatsapp. These alerted authorities, his team and the RC. To find him locally after drifting away the PLB helped. And when that failed, the stroboscope light of the raft got JLC’s attention. In short, you need all these working if things turn sour. Kevin can indeed count his blessings. 

 

Laurent

Super Anarchist
2,301
1,964
Houston
Thanks for that summary.

Btw the personal EPIRB is called a Personal Locator Beacon or PLB. The difference is that an EPIRB has transmitter that can reach satellites and can thus relay a mayday worldwide to a station that will alert boats in the vicinity. A PLB is an small AIS device and has a limited coverage, as the PLB / AIS is at sea level, and has smaller power. And with a rough seastate the signal can be extra hindered. Normally AIS antennes are on top of the mast which provides, depending on mast height, weather/seastate and inclination of the boat, for a class B AIS a coverage of roughly 10-15 nm. A PLB in a rough sea at sea level would be a couple of miles if you are very lucky imho. 

So Kevin was in possession of the EPIRB which he activated after sending a whatsapp. These alerted authorities, his team and the RC. To find him locally after drifting away the PLB helped. And when that failed, the stroboscope light of the raft got JLC’s attention. In short, you need all these working if things turn sour. Kevin can indeed count his blessings. 
Thanks for the explanation Herman!

 

AnotherSailor

Super Anarchist
1,276
403
SF Bay
Thanks for that summary.

Btw the personal EPIRB is called a Personal Locator Beacon or PLB. The difference is that an EPIRB has transmitter that can reach satellites and can thus relay a mayday worldwide to a station that will alert boats in the vicinity. A PLB is an small AIS device and has a limited coverage, as the PLB / AIS is at sea level, and has smaller power. And with a rough seastate the signal can be extra hindered. Normally AIS antennes are on top of the mast which provides, depending on mast height, weather/seastate and inclination of the boat, for a class B AIS a coverage of roughly 10-15 nm. A PLB in a rough sea at sea level would be a couple of miles if you are very lucky imho. 

So Kevin was in possession of the EPIRB which he activated after sending a whatsapp. These alerted authorities, his team and the RC. To find him locally after drifting away the PLB helped. And when that failed, the stroboscope light of the raft got JLC’s attention. In short, you need all these working if things turn sour. Kevin can indeed count his blessings. 
Indeed!

From the account of JLC it seems that he found Kevin because of the light on the raft.  It doesn't seem he ever picked up the AIS signal of the PLB (unless I missed it). Think about that: the chances of missing the light in those waves are significant! Race HQ did receive his location, but that location will always be delayed before it gets back to the search team.

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
The sort of longitudinal bending which could lead to the sort of damage in the photo below? Big jump to make and veering on wild speculation here, but if two boats failed in a similar mode - albeit with quite different outcomes -  is that the start of a pattern?

VG_Hugo_Boss_Bow_Damage_1_23112020.jpg
I was thinking about this last night, is this one of those times when we belatedly realise we've introduced a new force into the equations?

Kevin is obviously no fool, and his comment about 'inversion' from the foils is quite interesting.

If I was on a foiler, I'd be somewhat obsessive about not slacking off on your hull inspection routine after this. We didn't see Imocas folding in half in the last race, what did we change? 

I am hoping the longer wave period in the SO would lessen this risk...but it's the southern ocean. Not a nice place to be testing hull integrity      

 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
Yes normal EPIRB performance you would expect in those circumstances. 

Get distress signal out first and don't just rely on EPIRB.

He had a AIS PLB.

In SO a EPIRB PLB usefull for redundancy in raft and body recovery not much else.
Jack, I sure hope you are wrong about that PLB. I have an EPRIB attached to my boat outside on a hydrostatic release so it signals if the boat sinks, and one at the the companionway to take with me into the liferaft, but I also have a PLB in my lifejacket pocket that is always with me sailing or kitesurfing, and trust that the PLB will also be useful, not just for recovering my body!
Mate I restricted EPIRB PLB as "not just for recovering my body!" to the Southern Ocean. Even in far more forgiving water temperatures it takes fuck all time for hypothermia to bite.

You sound like me having a EPIRB still available in a "foldaboat" NO TIME type incident fetishism. Mine are not a loaded structure but whales and containers trying to fuck me. 

Yours a good solution. Mine is aft mounted raft (easy access in a lost keel rollover) on a hydrostatic release with the second EPIRB packed inside raft and registered to vessels raft to give them an idea what I'm on if #1 Action a distress signal is a fail. The EPIRB PLB then a backup for raft. 

The day they can get an approved EPIRB & AIS PLB in one small unit will be a great day. 

 
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Nixon

Member
294
20
Thanks for the explanation Herman!
I think that there may be some transaltion / naming issues.

My understanding:

  • EPIRB: Talks to COSPAS satelites on 406 MHz, may also have some low power 121.5 MHz comms for aircraft to find beacon
  • PLB: Talks to COSPAS satelites on 406 MHz, may also have some low power 121.5 MHz comms for aircraft to find beacon, generally in a 'attach to body' form-factor
  • AIS personal beacon: Designed to communicate with AIS systems over VHF frequencies, no satellite comms

There are units that combine the PLB and AIS - https://www.plastimo.com/en/balise-individuelle-ais-srs-safelink-r10.html

I assume all of the skippers would have something similar.

 




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