Vendee Globe 2020

DVV

Member
89
60
Italy
Initial stability comes from beam (and keel), like standing with your legs spread, does not matter much if your feet are round or not.
Even with foils Armel can tell how a fuller bow works.
Thank you for the explanation. The example is very clear!

 

LeoV

Super Anarchist
12,690
3,744
The Netherlands
I keep thinking of my collision with a whale. It was only at 10-12 knots and it felt just like a car crash yet the only damage was abrasions to the leading edge of the keel thanks to the pressure release valve on the hydraulics (swing keel).

So, is such a mechanism even possible within the foil boxes?
If they are made in a box that can move, yes, but that would mean an outside the hull structure. A lot is possible, but in a hull...

 

Rafael

Member
451
253
Alboran Sea
VG + VOR  condemned to be together, definitely working side by side, hopefully we'll have a wealthy and long marriage :) Good news

(PRB RIP and short but impressive aerial sequence of SteelBull Charal foiling in moderate sea state)


 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
Watching people get shocked about boats dropping out in the Vendee every 4 years is like watching the Australian press and public slowly remember there is a big difference between the Olympic and commonwealth games.
I don't recall 6 drop outs in 9 days in the same postcode. 

 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
Somebody was asking about ice danger... virtually none anymore. Going back to beginnings of Vendee.....Southern Right Whale dolphins..
Mate now you are fucking with me knowing I'm desperately waiting to catch you out saying; "Southern Ocean".  :D

 
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shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
If they are made in a box that can move, yes, but that would mean an outside the hull structure. A lot is possible, but in a hull...
Righto, outside the hull it is then...might need a Hugo Boss level of sponsorship :blink: .......

foil.png

 
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t.rex

Member
I could be wrong but I think the class rules only allow one axis of movement and only 10? degrees.

All of the boats with foils are using the pitch axis in the movement control.

Your design is showing yaw movement which would have to be added to the pitch control, a whole new level of complexity (and not class legal).

But it's good that you're thinking about it.

 
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jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
"Having GPS just means it can send useful data over AIS."

With no GPS there is NO fucking AIS PLB.

@shanghaisailor this is your fucking fault and mess I'm cleaning up here.  :D

......Jon is right the term overloaded.

Pilot is dead right about confusion....

.....There is misinformation generated innocently by people like Shang and you Jon. There is also the bullshitters like Turd.  

...So now same PLB name for three (3) completely different devices. If approved I doubt the PLB name will survive. Industry and regulators will come up with something to differentiate like DUO PLB or some shit.

_______________

So no wonder the fucking confusion and so many fucking posts here.

Hopefully that's the fucking end.
Very exhausting Jack, I don't give a shit if you are right or wrong. But's toxic troll masculinity in it's purest form for me. Thanks for proving my point exactly. I'll have blocked you like Random, including mentions and messages. Welcome to the hall of fame. 
Herman that post stopped the very shit you were bitching about.

Trolling for you maybe  However it is an important and consequential subject to Kevin's experience and for wider application, but as often subject to misinformation. BUT yes it does bore 90% of people to fucking death.

Herman you got some "adjustment bureau stick" 3 years ago from me in the VOR.. nothing but likeys since my anger management program. Stief was my sponsor.

Would it help if I added saying I've always owned a German car, except once?

I'm now curled up in the foetal position in your place of purgatory, afraid fucking  Randumb will spot me. 

 
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oioi

Super Anarchist
1,073
87
Google translation from vg website

Item

Sam Davies ( Initiatives Coeur ) was at the session this Thursday morning to explain what happened to his monohull in the dead of night ...
“I had gybed behind the front, there was 30 knots of wind. I was advancing between 15 and 22 knots in complicated seas. I typed as if I was on the heels of a rock: I stopped dead. There were creaks. I flew, everything in the boat flew, including my dinner. It was violent, I hurt myself. I dropped everything right away to stop the boat. I typed an UFO, I don't know what it was. I went directly to look around the keel, I knew straight away that it was not the foil but the keel.

The bearings are fine, the bulkheads of each front and rear landing are fine. On the other hand, all the longitudinal bulkheads in the keel well are cracked. This is where the shock was cushioned. I did checks, I have the shore team on standby who work with the architects. There I must take shelter, I move towards Cape Town very slowly. I have the storm, I am downwind but there is a fair amount of sea. I am 310 miles from Cape Bonne-Esperance.

It happened at nightfall: it's always the same, it's always the hard times! Then I was in the dark night to control everything. It was the same thing when I had dismasted, it was in the middle of the night ( note Sam Davies had dismasted in the Vendée Globe 2012/2013 ). I did what I could, in 30 knots of wind, in huge seas. The priority was to stabilize the boat and put it on a course where it is less strained possible.

I did checks with the team. The shock displaced the keel cylinder bellows which seals between the keel well and the cylinder. Suddenly, I took water. The priority was therefore to manage it, it was a little cracked on the joints. At first, I turned on the immersion pump - which is great by the way - I turned it on directly to empty the water that came in through the keel well. It was the most important. I flew in the boat but was lucky because it could have been worse, but my ribs hurt. "

the keel hit a ufo, the logitudanals around the keel are damaged, the boat is taking on water (although pumps are managing).  Slowly heading for cape town.
 
179
80
I could be wrong but I think the class rules only allow one axis of movement and only 10? degrees.

All of the boats with foils are using the pitch axis in the movement control.

Your design is showing yaw movement, a whole new level of complexity (and not class legal).

But it's good that you're thinking about it.
It's quite possible to control pitch with variable sweep. If movement in that axis also give damage mitigation then it's not a bad idea. 

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,508
2,550
Australia
I could be wrong but I think the class rules only allow one axis of movement and only 10? degrees.

All of the boats with foils are using the pitch axis in the movement control.

Your design is showing yaw movement, a whole new level of complexity (and not class legal).

But it's good that you're thinking about it.
Yep, you 'd have to make it non-adjustable for yaw, purely only for the purpose of shock loads. The lateral ram would lift the foil when to windward.  

But considering I'm about as related to engineering as Mikewof is to being a taciturn chap, I fully expect there is stuff I haven't thought of.

But maybe it is time to get the whole appendage out of the hull. It's not like they don't have the beam to fuck around with deck mounting. Might keep the water on the outside a bit longer at least...... 

 
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Icedtea

Super Anarchist
Google translation from vg website

Item

Sam Davies ( Initiatives Coeur ) was at the session this Thursday morning to explain what happened to his monohull in the dead of night ...
“I had gybed behind the front, there was 30 knots of wind. I was advancing between 15 and 22 knots in complicated seas. I typed as if I was on the heels of a rock: I stopped dead. There were creaks. I flew, everything in the boat flew, including my dinner. It was violent, I hurt myself. I dropped everything right away to stop the boat. I typed an UFO, I don't know what it was. I went directly to look around the keel, I knew straight away that it was not the foil but the keel.

The bearings are fine, the bulkheads of each front and rear landing are fine. On the other hand, all the longitudinal bulkheads in the keel well are cracked. This is where the shock was cushioned. I did checks, I have the shore team on standby who work with the architects. There I must take shelter, I move towards Cape Town very slowly. I have the storm, I am downwind but there is a fair amount of sea. I am 310 miles from Cape Bonne-Esperance.

It happened at nightfall: it's always the same, it's always the hard times! Then I was in the dark night to control everything. It was the same thing when I had dismasted, it was in the middle of the night ( note Sam Davies had dismasted in the Vendée Globe 2012/2013 ). I did what I could, in 30 knots of wind, in huge seas. The priority was to stabilize the boat and put it on a course where it is less strained possible.

I did checks with the team. The shock displaced the keel cylinder bellows which seals between the keel well and the cylinder. Suddenly, I took water. The priority was therefore to manage it, it was a little cracked on the joints. At first, I turned on the immersion pump - which is great by the way - I turned it on directly to empty the water that came in through the keel well. It was the most important. I flew in the boat but was lucky because it could have been worse, but my ribs hurt. "

the keel hit a ufo, the logitudanals around the keel are damaged, the boat is taking on water (although pumps are managing).  Slowly heading for cape town.
Fuck, that's game over - has she officially called it a daay?

 

ct800

Member
68
18
--
Reading the French news it is almost sure that it is over for Sam. Very sorry for her :(  No more superpositive videos from the red-white boat.

 

GBH

Anarchist
523
103
mostly Oz
The real problem is that the class has been stuck in the past and trying to keep the existing rules in place  and these never envisaged the development of the foils.   If you want to foil over the world's oceans then  Imoca needs to accept that the game has to be be revised, and not in minor tweaks.

These fat hull shapes are unnecessary when the RM is coming from the foils, but you're stuck with the class rig that is now oversize and heavy as the starting point.  One design keel fin is fair enough, but the rest of the rule drives the design into areas that are undesirable.

Time to throw it out as far as foilers are concerned and say enough is enough.   I have a sneaking suspicion that the last HBoss would have been a better bet for this race, current crop are 'overfoiled' and see how Le Roi JC is managing - every chance of winning this particular race, and for sure he's likely to be a damn sight quicker back up the Atlantic than many of the new boats.

 

Bebmoumoute

Anarchist
535
1,101
Southampton, UK




KE: How is it going Jean ?

JLC: Yes and you ?

KE: We've seen worse.

JLC: Coffee?

KE: Boat is going well ?

JLC: Not bad at all. Gonna stay at the edge of the high pressure to avoid the worst. We have had enough of the tough bit.

KE: Hi everyone ! Talking from Yes we Cam with Jean. Our "adventures" are behind us, as least time wise, still thinking about it a bit. I have seen all the support messages receibed by PRB and my family. Thanks everyone, in partcilar the PRB people. In addition to the scary moments, I am disappointed, I won't be able to finish the race. I still cannot believe the boat folded in a surf, but as says Jean-Jacques (Laurent, PRB boss), it is only equipment, the rest ended up well. Anyhow, hello everyone, will keep you updated from Jean's boat. It is going well, it's a good fast boat, it's confortable, food is good. All is well. See you soon, thanks for all the support.

 

Snowden

Super Anarchist
1,100
582
UK
I have a sneaking suspicion that the last HBoss would have been a better bet for this race, current crop are 'overfoiled' and see how Le Roi JC is managing - every chance of winning this particular race, and for sure he's likely to be a damn sight quicker back up the Atlantic than many of the new boats.
not to forget Dutreux, who is sitting in the rescuers' pack in the "old old" BOSS

 

Raptorsailor

Anarchist
915
310
The sea
Jesus Christ. I dropped off the face of the earth for around 2 weeks, come back and an IMOCA has only gone and fucking sunk. Forgetting Cheminées Poujolat JuanK? which sunk in rather dubious conditions. What the actual fuck. 

 




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