Vendee Globe 2024

S

seatosummit

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NZK said:
Agreed but I'm not sure if the degree to which it was optimised for downwind foiling was, or still is, understood. Boats such a Occitane/BV with it's scow bow had more obvious features that clarified their design focus but HB seemingly relied more on foil shape which perhaps wasn't as easy to identify.
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I was impressed by the recent video of Pip Hare showing where her team had cut a huge slice off the bottom of her newish boat's bow entry, apparently sacrificing buoyancy for the potential ability "to ride over waves when surfing, rather than through them" she explained. This led me to begin wondering about the terms being used to describe these new IMOCA bow shapes. While we can agree that "scow" denotes a round bow with a notable radius, it does not cover what is going on or below the waterline, especially if there is actually a forward overhang of several feet. So what do we call this shape? I had no idea at all until I happened to see some news about the CG icebreaker preparing to depart Seattle. I realized that the traditional bow shape of an icebreaker looks almost the same as the new IMOCAS! So to stay within the nautical tradition, I suggest the overhanging IMOCA bow be called a "wavebreaker." What do you think?
 
TheDragon

TheDragon

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That kind of bow modification does not seem to be helping Malizia at the moment, no obvious speed advantage over 11th Hour and Biotherm in the same conditions side by side.
 
M

mathystuff

Super Anarchist
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TheDragon said:
That kind of bow modification does not seem to be helping Malizia at the moment, no obvious speed advantage over 11th Hour and Biotherm in the same conditions side by side.
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Well, she isn't exactly in mint condition right now.

SMS_Seydlitz_damage.jpg
 
S

seatosummit

New member
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TheDragon said:
That kind of bow modification does not seem to be helping Malizia at the moment, no obvious speed advantage over 11th Hour and Biotherm in the same conditions side by side.
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I agree this is a case of "show me the money!" I am sure a designer could easily argue for ADDING volume to the bow to get over a wave, not reducing it. And the loss of LWL is clearly a negative. Here is a picture of a USCG icebreaker that looks suspiciously similar to the IMOCA WAVEBREAKER bow (IMHO), which is definitely proved to work. PS--I saw the state of the art 60's in 2012-13, Cheers PM

icebreaker polar-star crew on ice.jpg


Fr. vendee globe men arnaud boissieres & bertrand de Broc with PM .jpg
 
M

Manfred

Anarchist
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North Germany
Following the Vendee since many editions and of course the TOR, I appreciate all the input here on the forums from Herrman and the likes. Makes me better understanding some moves.

Seeing all the incredible drone pictures and the way the new boats are moving, using their foils to their advantage both in RM and hydrodynamic resistance, I am asking myself if King Jean is not caught out on the wrong foot, going without foils next time. The new boats and the sailing style has developed so much during the TOR, that I do not give a penny on a boat without the latest hull shape and subsequent foil and sailing style development.

Anybody can chip in here?
 
Fiji Bitter

Fiji Bitter

I love Fiji Bitter
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In the wild.
King Claq is an old hand, and doesn't really expect to win the race.
I think he's happy to challenge the youngsters from time to time, without the potential risk of those enormous foiling boards.
That said, he and even more a young Eric Bellion, with a soon to be launched first sister ship, expect to give the toilets a run for their considerable money. (That's a funny auto correct!).
But having seen the incredible performance of the TOR foilers, in perfect conditions mind you, you are probably gone be proven right indeed.

Forgot to mention that the advances in autopilot performance play a big role in this too.
 
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Liquid

Liquid

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Manfred said:
Following the Vendee since many editions and of course the TOR, I appreciate all the input here on the forums from Herrman and the likes. Makes me better understanding some moves.

Seeing all the incredible drone pictures and the way the new boats are moving, using their foils to their advantage both in RM and hydrodynamic resistance, I am asking myself if King Jean is not caught out on the wrong foot, going without foils next time. The new boats and the sailing style has developed so much during the TOR, that I do not give a penny on a boat without the latest hull shape and subsequent foil and sailing style development.

Anybody can chip in here?
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What was the wind strength during the recent almost 600 mile runs?

The conditions have been exceedingly perfect for these newer boats. However, it's been a light air Southern Ocean leg. With the ice limit, is this the new face of sailing the SO? 20ish knots wind speed and 20+ of boat speed in relatively benign conditions. No need to seek out 30+.

No one has had to try to slow down during or get away from big winds yet...
 
Q

Qtrfoil

Member
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156
Annapolis, Maryland, USA
Liquid said:
What was the wind strength during the recent almost 600 mile runs?

The conditions have been exceedingly perfect for these newer boats. However, it's been a light air Southern Ocean leg. With the ice limit, is this the new face of sailing the SO? 20ish knots wind speed and 20+ of boat speed in relatively benign conditions. No need to seek out 30+.

No one has had to try to slow down during or get away from big winds yet...
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Looks like Malizia was in the 20s when she was making her run, never more than about 28. I think Holcim was in better wind when she was making miles. No, nothing like 30+.
1679246288068.png
 
Bagheera

Bagheera

Member
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392
Alaska
Manfred said:
Seeing all the incredible drone pictures and the way the new boats are moving, using their foils to their advantage both in RM and hydrodynamic resistance, I am asking myself if King Jean is not caught out on the wrong foot, going without foils next time.
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There is actually a lot more to it than just that. Foils and their rotation system weigh just shy of 1000kg, that is about 12-15% of the boats weight and that weight is certainly not placed in an optimal location. One of the two foils is useless at any given moment and adds a fair amount of additional resistance. On top of that it adds about 20-25% cost to the build of a new one.

Historically, every single VG has on average been about 6-8% faster than the previous one, meaning that the new generation boats are about that amount faster. There was no big 'hump' in elapsed time when foils were introduced and now with the third generation coming up that number has not increased either. What we have seen is that every new build, without exception, was one built with foils. This means that the development of non-foiling boats have come to a stop since the introduction. If that would have continued I would be surprised if the 6-8% speed increase per generation of boats would not have been achieved either.

Going without foils is a huge cost saver, weight saver and complexity reducer, it also makes the boat less fragile. Boats are now pushed to go as fast as is safe, rather than how fast they can actually go. That safety limit might actually be a lot higher for less fragile boats.

King Jean is actually not the only one considering a new boat without foils, there is a whole bunch more of them. I still find it a great pity that Vincent Riou hit that UFO in the 2016 race. Would have been interesting to see him go against Armel and Alex in that race.
 
Liquid

Liquid

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Bagheera said:
Boats are now pushed to go as fast as is safe, rather than how fast they can actually go. That safety limit might actually be a lot higher for less fragile boats.
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Seems the boats are at a crossover now. Any faster and the human element becomes actually critical. It's already hard on the sailors. Imagine if the average boat speeds are 30+ knots and they are fully foiling, a monohull.

You'll have to slow down for shift changes and shitting with 5 point seat belts - everywhere!

No thanks. I'd rather have 3 hulls while flying over 100' of waterline pushing 1K mile/day.
 
M

minca3

Member
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28 candidate entry list for the VG24:

- Romain ATTANASIO (FORTINET - BEST WESTERN)
- Eric BELLION (COMMEUNSEULHOMME X ALTAVIA)
- Yannick BESTAVEN (MAÎTRE COQ V)
- Jérémie BEYOU (CHARAL)
- Arnaud BOISSIÈRES (LA MIE CÂLINE)
- Louis BURTON (BUREAU VALLÉE)
- Manuel COUSIN (MC SAILING TEAM)
- Charlie DALIN (MACIF)
- Louis DUC (GROUPE FIVES - LANTANA ENVIRONNEMENT)
- Benjamin DUTREUX (GUYOT ENVIRONNEMENT - WATER FAMILY)
- Kevin ESCOFFIER (HOLCIM - PRB)
- Benjamin FERRÉ (MONNOYEUR DUO FOR A JOB)
- Pip HARE (MEDALLIA)
- Boris HERRMANN (MALIZIA SEAEXPLORER)
- Isabelle JOSCHKE (MACSF)
- Jean LE CAM (TOUT COMMENCE EN FINISTERE - ARMOR LUX)
- Sébastien MARSSET (FOUSSIER - MON COURTIER ÉNERGIE)
- Justine METTRAUX (TEAMWORK.NET)
- Giancarlo PEDOTE (PRYSMIAN GROUP)
- Yoann RICHOMME (PAPREC ARKÉA)
- Alan ROURA (HUBLOT)
- Damien SEGUIN (GROUPE APICIL)
- Phil SHARP (OCEANSLAB)
- Maxime SOREL (V AND B - MONBANA – MAYENNE)
- Guirec SOUDÉE (FREELANCE.COM)
- Nicolas TROUSSEL (CORUM L'ÉPARGNE)
- Denis VAN WEYNBERGH (D'IETEREN GROUP)
- Szabolcs WEÖRES (SZABI RACING)

www.vendeeglobe.org

Actualités - L’équipe de direction de course du Vendée Globe 2024 dévoilée - Vendée Globe

L’équipe de Direction de Course pour le Vendée Globe 2024 est dévoilée.…
www.vendeeglobe.org www.vendeeglobe.org
 
D

despacio avenue

Super Anarchist
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minca3 said:
28 candidate entry list for the VG24:

- Romain ATTANASIO (FORTINET - BEST WESTERN)
- Eric BELLION (COMMEUNSEULHOMME X ALTAVIA)
- Yannick BESTAVEN (MAÎTRE COQ V)
- Jérémie BEYOU (CHARAL)
- Arnaud BOISSIÈRES (LA MIE CÂLINE)
- Louis BURTON (BUREAU VALLÉE)
- Manuel COUSIN (MC SAILING TEAM)
- Charlie DALIN (MACIF)
- Louis DUC (GROUPE FIVES - LANTANA ENVIRONNEMENT)
- Benjamin DUTREUX (GUYOT ENVIRONNEMENT - WATER FAMILY)
- Kevin ESCOFFIER (HOLCIM - PRB)
- Benjamin FERRÉ (MONNOYEUR DUO FOR A JOB)
- Pip HARE (MEDALLIA)
- Boris HERRMANN (MALIZIA SEAEXPLORER)
- Isabelle JOSCHKE (MACSF)
- Jean LE CAM (TOUT COMMENCE EN FINISTERE - ARMOR LUX)
- Sébastien MARSSET (FOUSSIER - MON COURTIER ÉNERGIE)
- Justine METTRAUX (TEAMWORK.NET)
- Giancarlo PEDOTE (PRYSMIAN GROUP)
- Yoann RICHOMME (PAPREC ARKÉA)
- Alan ROURA (HUBLOT)
- Damien SEGUIN (GROUPE APICIL)
- Phil SHARP (OCEANSLAB)
- Maxime SOREL (V AND B - MONBANA – MAYENNE)
- Guirec SOUDÉE (FREELANCE.COM)
- Nicolas TROUSSEL (CORUM L'ÉPARGNE)
- Denis VAN WEYNBERGH (D'IETEREN GROUP)
- Szabolcs WEÖRES (SZABI RACING)

www.vendeeglobe.org

Actualités - L’équipe de direction de course du Vendée Globe 2024 dévoilée - Vendée Globe

L’équipe de Direction de Course pour le Vendée Globe 2024 est dévoilée.…
www.vendeeglobe.org www.vendeeglobe.org
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