volvo goes both ways
- Thread starter MR.CLEAN
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southerncross
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Like the T-Rudders. That's new for an offshore mono, no?
bucc5062
Super Anarchist
To Ian Walker...thank you
southerncross
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ModernViking
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Spot on if you ask me
Ian Walker Not sure I agree - we don't know where the race will start or end, what the route is or even when the race will be. IMOCA Masters has been a flop since its inception and I don't think inport foiling catamarans have any relevance to an Offshore Race. The worst bit is that the race is no longer fully crewed and as crew numbers go down so do opportunities for young sailors and sailors in general. The VOR has been turned into a commercial roadshow like the AC and I think you should ignore your history and tradition at your own peril. Having said that they had to do something and I admire their ambition!
Ian Walker Not sure I agree - we don't know where the race will start or end, what the route is or even when the race will be. IMOCA Masters has been a flop since its inception and I don't think inport foiling catamarans have any relevance to an Offshore Race. The worst bit is that the race is no longer fully crewed and as crew numbers go down so do opportunities for young sailors and sailors in general. The VOR has been turned into a commercial roadshow like the AC and I think you should ignore your history and tradition at your own peril. Having said that they had to do something and I admire their ambition!
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Francis Vaughan
Super Anarchist
So, just thinking about the new boat.
Fits within the IMOCA 60 rules nearly. Interesting to compare.
As the actual rules go, the differences are not startling. IMOCA prohibits adjustable elements on foils. IMOCA maximum draft is 500mm shorter. That is going to be a significant difference. Converting to an IMOCA would need the new class defined keel fin anyway, so changing the draft is no big deal anyway. It would appear that the mast tube is not IMOCA 60 legal either. So a conversion minimally would require a new mast and new keel fin. New mast isn't going to make one a terrific bargain for a mid-range IMOCA entrant.
Comparing with the latest Hugo Boss, the new VO60 has 300mm less beam, is 500kg heavier, and the mast is 1m shorter.
The question that comes with this is the robustness of the new platform. Only 500kg heavier than a current top line IMOCA 60 is not exactly going to make the new boat have the level of bulletproof robustness we have with the VO65. Still half a ton of carbon can go a long way carefully allocated. One assumes a great deal has been learnt from the VO65 as to what parts were overbuilt, so we can hope that the new boat won't be a return to the fragile builds of the VO70. But there is a hell of a lot of mass vanishing out of the boat. relative to the VO65.
Comparing with the VO65 we get:
4.5 tons lighter (Over 1/3rd)
300mm deeper draft
About 10% more sail area
100mm less beam
Deck spreaders (at least as shown in the pic.)
and of course foils.
Some changes relative to the IMOCA60 are probably just as much experience learned as anything else. But the new boat will be stiffer.
Fits within the IMOCA 60 rules nearly. Interesting to compare.
As the actual rules go, the differences are not startling. IMOCA prohibits adjustable elements on foils. IMOCA maximum draft is 500mm shorter. That is going to be a significant difference. Converting to an IMOCA would need the new class defined keel fin anyway, so changing the draft is no big deal anyway. It would appear that the mast tube is not IMOCA 60 legal either. So a conversion minimally would require a new mast and new keel fin. New mast isn't going to make one a terrific bargain for a mid-range IMOCA entrant.
Comparing with the latest Hugo Boss, the new VO60 has 300mm less beam, is 500kg heavier, and the mast is 1m shorter.
The question that comes with this is the robustness of the new platform. Only 500kg heavier than a current top line IMOCA 60 is not exactly going to make the new boat have the level of bulletproof robustness we have with the VO65. Still half a ton of carbon can go a long way carefully allocated. One assumes a great deal has been learnt from the VO65 as to what parts were overbuilt, so we can hope that the new boat won't be a return to the fragile builds of the VO70. But there is a hell of a lot of mass vanishing out of the boat. relative to the VO65.
Comparing with the VO65 we get:
4.5 tons lighter (Over 1/3rd)
300mm deeper draft
About 10% more sail area
100mm less beam
Deck spreaders (at least as shown in the pic.)
and of course foils.
Some changes relative to the IMOCA60 are probably just as much experience learned as anything else. But the new boat will be stiffer.
southerncross
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jack_sparrow
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I now understand what your saying and tend to agree that it lacked balls and they should have kept it to one boat. I never got into the in-ports unless there in person though I understand their importance for engaging with the persons of the host city/country. Trouble for VOR they are a bit too early in design evolution to go foiling multi into the southern ocean right now, yet they didn't want to be seen ignoring multi's for a whole lot of reasons. You see no relevance in the in-port multi's, I have never seen any relevance for in-port races in a offshore race, other than the one above.
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southerncross
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I wonder how well the offshore foiling mono skill set of the skippers and crew translates to inshore foiling cats? Imagine coming off a Southern Ocean leg, pounded for weeks on end (as the latest IMOCA's gave their skippers a beating) and having to finesse a fussy little foiling cat around a tight inshore course.
Does this mean splitting the training time between the two platforms? I'm guessing both boats will require a great deal of training to get it done well if the AC and Vendee are proof. It took many months to get up to speed on the VO65's last edition and some teams were still catching up mid race.
Does this mean splitting the training time between the two platforms? I'm guessing both boats will require a great deal of training to get it done well if the AC and Vendee are proof. It took many months to get up to speed on the VO65's last edition and some teams were still catching up mid race.
GauchoGreg
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Why do I get the feeling they are screwing them all up more than making any of them better. The further away from OD the more interesting the racing is, the more value to the sponsors, even if it costs more. They can go out and have a feet race of existing Cal 49s for next to nothing, but how many people will want to watch? A hell of a lot of people used to care about the Volvo, and sponsors participated. How's that going for them lately? The AC.... getting less and less interesting, even though the boats are blazing fast. IMOCA is very arguably the most interesting and successful right now.... are they OD????
jack_sparrow
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GauchoGreg
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Not even close to OD (in IMOCA). Still wide variety of boats, some older boats that had been redone and were competitive with very different designs, new boats with significantly differing hulls & foils, etc.... made much more interesting. Substantial differences between the top 3 boats, and very interesting where they performed differently.
After being an avid follower of the Volvo, I could not have cared less during the last one. The AC has gone WAY too far down the OD road. It is the heights of ignorance to ignore that the bottom line is impacted by BOTH cost AND income. They are disregarding income that is enhanced by design competition and big powerful dynamic/diverse boats in favor of little boats (small crews) and OD. Yawn. I will just focus on the Ultim (and even they were stupid with their effort to keep their constrain boat size.... kudos to Gitana to say screw them), where we see many boats recently built (Macif, Sodebo-rebuilt), under construction (Gitana & Banque Populaire), and in the design stage (Sodebo & Idec-I believe).
Same can be said for IMOCA, lots of new boats designed and built over the past 10+ years. Their focus has NOT been on keeping costs down (that's a loser's mindset), but rather making the racing exciting and improving the ability to follow the racing.
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Speng
Super Anarchist
They won't be very good IMOCAs if they have to carry any sort of crew. Most newer IMOCAs have so little space inside that you'd find it hard to fit more than maybe 3 people on board.
jack_sparrow
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Ian Walker FB
"Ian Walker Not sure I agree - we don't know where the race will start or end, what the route is or even when the race will be...."
Volvo routes have never been announced 2 races out plus he knows full well that is commercialy impossible in advance of a new format announcement and some key ports being signed up.
Ian Walker tweet
"Not quite sure what to make of that @volvooceanrace announcement - one thing is clear though - sailing is all now short handed"
WTF..how is a VOR crew of 5 -7 plus a OBR short-handed??? Wouldn't like to do too much LD SH on this new thing...see pic below.
Walker is sounding more Pommy and poncey by the minute and scared of the French/IMOCA connection. Also maybe at odds with his employer views, the RYA, Great Britain national rep for World Sailing.
"Ian Walker Not sure I agree - we don't know where the race will start or end, what the route is or even when the race will be...."
Volvo routes have never been announced 2 races out plus he knows full well that is commercialy impossible in advance of a new format announcement and some key ports being signed up.
Ian Walker tweet
"Not quite sure what to make of that @volvooceanrace announcement - one thing is clear though - sailing is all now short handed"
WTF..how is a VOR crew of 5 -7 plus a OBR short-handed??? Wouldn't like to do too much LD SH on this new thing...see pic below.
Walker is sounding more Pommy and poncey by the minute and scared of the French/IMOCA connection. Also maybe at odds with his employer views, the RYA, Great Britain national rep for World Sailing.
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jack_sparrow
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Multi's was always the elephant in the room...this decision turns it into a zebra for a while. Pretty smart.
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theadmiralty
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Shut it down. Put everything into the Vendée Globe.
GauchoGreg
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Seriously. If a boat splashes in the water and no one is there, does it make a sound? I guess Volvo thinks it does, and that it is a good idea, so long as it is cheap and "sustainable".
Razorblade_Romance
Member
Surely from a long term sponsor hunting perspective (Read: Groupama, Macif, BP etc), wouldnt it be a wonderful thing to be able to walk in and say, "Right, with this new platform, over a 8 year contract, we can now do 2 x VOR races and 2 x VG, all in the one leased (but owned for all intents and purposes for returning teams) boat, plus you can appeal to the AC/Multihull fans with the inshore platform.
Has benefits for both the VOR and VG by offering more to the historic French VG obsession, and rest of the world participation in both events, without stepping on the dicks of each other.
That being said, there hasn't been anything stated from IMOCA on whether they are in support of this hybrid type plan...................?
Has benefits for both the VOR and VG by offering more to the historic French VG obsession, and rest of the world participation in both events, without stepping on the dicks of each other.
That being said, there hasn't been anything stated from IMOCA on whether they are in support of this hybrid type plan...................?
GauchoGreg
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Last time I checked, sponsors only sponsor when they believe people care. When "But it's cheap" is the best selling line, call me skeptical that this will be successful.
