VOR 2017-18

[bucc5062]

+1 and the subject will never be a dead horse bucc!

The only way an old 70 could be made slow enough to sail as a training boat with a new 65 was by severely restricting its keel movement! Wonder why?

No.  I don't give a shit.  Let's compare the J class to something and make it relevant.

I take you as a rational member of this crowd so why would this not be done.  Are we bringing back the VO70s?  Are we setting up a race of VO70 against the 65s?

It really is a done deal and least we forget, come the next one, the 65's will be pushed aside for some foiling fantasy so how's about we just stop these comparisons that mean nothing and focus on what we have today.  Today we have VO65 OD and the better discussion could be, can a bunch of stags (7 in total) beat a mixed bag of truly talented sailors?  Can Dee whip her crew into shape and put a hurt on some boats.  Does Mapfre have the real chops to dominate or will Brunel or Dongfeng try to power past.

The whole "oh my the VO70's were better waaaa" is, at this point moot.  Yes, Jack keeps beating away and from this 'I never leave my lake' spectator...it's getting old.  Don't like the boat...don't watch.  Don't comment, because either you respect the boat and the crews that sail it, or fuck off and start your own series.  As for me, it's got a fucking sail so I like it very much.

 

[southerncross]

And too the VO65 will soon be moot.  

 

[Miffy]

What I don't get is this is a race between OD boats, as long as the boats aren't becoming your standard 36 ft cruiser, and are capable of bringing their crew home safely - who cares if they're faster or slower than the former boats? It isn't a record chasing event. 

Similarly, it is why I've very skeptical about the in port catamarans - because it seems like an awful waste of money and a general distraction to the crew. The in port events with the 65s are stunning - it is very interesting to see how the crews take different approaches to win. 

If the cost saving between VOR60 and VOR65 can be either shifted to making entry lower and increase the number of teams, that'll be far more helpful than adding an in port class. 

 

[bucc5062]

What I don't get is this is a race between OD boats, as long as the boats aren't becoming your standard 36 ft cruiser, and are capable of bringing their crew home safely - who cares if they're faster or slower than the former boats? It isn't a record chasing event. 

Similarly, it is why I've very skeptical about the in port catamarans - because it seems like an awful waste of money and a general distraction to the crew. The in port events with the 65s are stunning - it is very interesting to see how the crews take different approaches to win. 

If the cost saving between VOR60 and VOR65 can be either shifted to making entry lower and increase the number of teams, that'll be far more helpful than adding an in port class. 

On June 28, 2012 Knut Frostad revealed the design at a press conference in Lorient during a stopover in the 2011–12 Volvo Ocean Race. In becoming a one-design event, the new boats are hoped to "significantly reduce the cost of mounting a campaign and bring the size of the fleet to 8-10 boats for future editions."[1] Frostad went on to state an entire campaign for future editions of the race would be around €15 million, and a "ready to sail" boat, including pre-race and race sails would be around €4.5 million in comparison to the €30-40 million region a current campaign can fall into.[5]

At the end of the day, it is about a race and either folks like it or not.  Me, I've liked it, yet if they go foiling cats, I won't

 

[jonas a]

They haven't told much about the format of the new in port class. I suppose the boat will be used for other racing too. Seems unlikely that they would put that kind of effort for solely an in port VOR race.

As long as the focus remains on offshore and the cats are there mostly to engage the crowds during the stop-overs, I'm ok with it. I guess the thinking is that most VOR sailors in the future will have some cat foiling experience, so the transition to in port sailing won't be overwhelming. Keeping the VOR60's off the course also means more time for repairing, if needed. 

 

[DtM]

Why don't we concentrate on this edition of the race in this thread and if you want to discuss the cats for the next race start a new thread for that.

 

[DtM]

Done.  Please go to the 2019-2020 thread for discussions of the 60 foiler and the in port cat.

 

[shanghaisailor]

Out there on it's lonesome in conditions perfect for a record....and it is a dog ...S2H finished 10 hrs behind Loyal, and behind a 100',  a slow Botin 80 and 3 V70'S and lucky to just beat a RP66 that got bogged.

Don't you love the old expression "lies, damn lies & statistics. So which year did which VO65 finish 10 hours behind Loyal? Be a miracle if you can find the answer to that Jack as a VO65 has never done the S2H and certainly NOT the one I think you are referring to.

How can I be so sure? Well I was on the media boat about 100m from the Sydney Heads turning mark and also at the finish line in Hobart and there was absolutely NO Volvo Ocean 65s taking part.

Perhaps you are confused by the fact that Charles Caudrelier (Skipper of Dongfeng) was skipper of the Chinese entry UBox which sailed into 3rd Overall IRC & 1st Overall ORCi.

This was part of Dongfeng's overall declared strategy of assisting the development of Chinese Offshore Sailing.

She was indeed about 10 hours behind Loyal and beaten in by the VOR70s but UBox (we call her Mini-Box) was (and is) a Cookson 50 NOT a VO65. A slight difference wouldn't you think?

How can I be so certain? I was her project manager for the S2H.

Agreed they were spot on conditions up in England but a record is a record and they didn't have the luxury of waiting for a weather window.

Just sayin'

SS

 

[shanghaisailor]

Oops - sorry Jack - looks like you were talking about CQR (well she did have her anchor down - surely) CQS

And thanks for correcting my comment about "guys" Bucc. Its just that often guys refers to the crew whatever their gender just like gay used to mean happy

 

[shanghaisailor]

Dongfeng did poorly in the Southern Ocean Leg last time you snark.

Alinghi, if you remember your recent history (last VOR) DDFRT were backed off deliberately to preserve the boat for later in the leg if you remember the blogs/comments that were coming off the boat before the mast broke which just adds to the irony of the breakage. Dongfeng in fact were not weak, they were 'foot off the throttle' they were looking at the overall race and when they started that leg were actually lying in 1st.

Funny though at the time people criticised DFRT for 4 sail reaching - now it appears everyone is doing it, nothing is new for long at this level.

Different race this time round, lets hope that the press, boating and general, will finally drop the 'rookie' tag on the 3 Chinese sailors who have more ocean miles under their belt than many. Plus the addition of Jeremy and Jack add to their strengths.

All credit to Mapfre though round the island and I am sure Rob Greenhalgh's local knowledge will have helped there a bit too.

We might have an exciting race starting on Sunday AND another one in 80 days or so time. For me already more exciting than foiling cats.

And if anyone has any doubts of DFRT's ability to send it - see the attached.

SS

 

[DtM]

Welcome back SS.  I have missed you.

 

[DtM]

I note that Dee described her crew in her very happy video piece after the race as "guys". I just love how happy she was and how proud of her crew she was.

It is just an expression (except where David Witt is concerned).

 

[jonas a]

I think Witt should pick Lisa Blair to his team. 

 

[Zander]

I wonder how a new V70 would hold up built to today's standards, build process and materials?

Problem would be the same. There was no reason people could not build a boat that would stay in one piece back then. Yes boatbuilding technology has improved; however, the incentive would still be to sit right on the edge of "We are good" and "Oh shit". A very expensive edge, even if things hold together.

 

[Zander]

To set off more aimless speculation, how do we rate the fleet?

I have four podium contenders (yes I know that does not fit):

Dongfeng - Team to beat

Mapfre - Very hard to call. They should do better than last time, but good enough for the win?

Vestas/Eleventh hour - Crew list looks good. Why can't I shake a slight feeling of mweh about them?

Brunel - A bit under cooked perhaps? But with all Bouwe's experience still a podium contender.(curious who be be nav)

Further:

AKZO-Nobel - Crew list looks less impressive now that some of the others have declared.

Turn the tide - Great project that will hopefully get some new faces involved. Sentimental favorite.

Scallywag - Feels a bit like the last stand of something old, we will see.

 

[jfunk]

I note that Dee described her crew in her very happy video piece after the race as "guys". I just love how happy she was and how proud of her crew she was.

It is just an expression (except where David Witt is concerned).

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/video/9768_-We-had-a-lot-of-fun-.html

I note in the fun video, there is a hard edit at 1.12min mark. At that point I think the camera is panning back on board from looking over the stern where TTTOP have just passed Scally.. I wonder if the cut was there because some comments were made between the boats? For a prize off Teaky's desk, what do you reckon would have been said as TTTOP passsed Scally and who would have said it

 

[Chasm]

There was a crew announcement for Scallywag

Luke Parkinson
Steve Hayles - Navigator
Mark Fullerton
John Fisher
Tiger Mok
David Mann
Alex Gough 
Ben Piggott - Bowman
David Witt - Skipper

7+0 crew so they have 2 spares in their lineup. Looks to me like 4 carried over from the 100footer?

 

[conrad_colman]

Just wanted to stir the pot here a little. 

Yes Leg Zero is underway, and its considered the qualifier, but rest assured that if someone can fund the 8th boat it won't be the qualifier that stands in between them and the race. They could even join the race after the official start. With 3 double point legs later in the race, missing leg 1 wouldn't be a problem in the overall standings. As someone familiar with last minute ocean racing campaigns, training time is more of an issue than when you actually join the race. 

 

[jack_sparrow]

There was a crew announcement for Scallywag

Luke Parkinson
Steve Hayles - Navigator
Mark Fullerton
John Fisher
Tiger Mok
David Mann
Alex Gough 
Ben Piggott - Bowman
David Witt - Skipper

7+0 crew so they have 2 spares in their lineup. Looks to me like 4 carried over from the 100footer?

That screams Peter Principle.

 

[lostmydetailsagain]

1. It bugs me that there is no crew list (or declaration from the teams themselves) for who is around during these official races. TAN did tell us who they had: https://www.teamakzonobel.com/press/podium-finish-for-team-akzonobel-in-leg-zero-opening-skirmish 
Team AkzoNobel crew list:
Skipper: Simeon Tienpont (NED)
Roberto Bermúdez de Castro (ESP)
Brad Farrand (NZL)
Martine Grael (BRA)
Brad Jackson (NZL)
Emily Nagel (BER)
Jules Salter (GBR)
Nicolai Sehested (DEN)
Joca Signorini (BRA)

Which means that somehow we lost Annemieke Bes and got Emily Nagel (compared to their website listed crew) and Luke Molloy (8th male crew listed). Is that due to prior commitments (and not rating this around the island very high?).

Bouwe/Brunel did clearly state they had to juggle their crew around in the post race interview with some shore crew joining on board for the RTI. Will be interesting to see who TTOP and Brunel take for the Fastnet. People who did the delivery, the RTI, a new batch from all the applications (I think around 1200-1300 CVs were sent in to Brunel using their webpage alone)?

2. My source who had informed me of all the entrants so far well ahead of time (although Brunel was a bit on-again/off-again so probably should not count that one) seems to start to doubt the earlier claim about the 8th boat being a done-deal... Nothing to do with leg 0 or qualifying but more with presenting value to those sponsors and suppliers of the race that had to bring the money together. Still not fully dismissed though.