VOR AUCTION - OPPORTUNITIES LOST & STILL THERE?

[DickDastardly]

The last financial sector team of substance to participate in this event was ABN Amro. Since the GFC the world's financial institutions have been on the nose. In Australia for instance there is a Royal Commission currently underway into their retail conduct. From what I read it is not pretty.

Whether this sector feel a privileged sport like sailing is the right place to wave the flag to alter that public perception I don't know. However I doubt it.

Bank B2C marketing is pretty market-specific given different maturities and regulatory environments so I'd agree it's a hard call to undertsand the alignment at a global level.   Certainly in Australia the whole financial services sector has more than a bit to do right now to sort its image out, but sponsoring a yacht race would be around #1345 on the top 1000 list of opportnities...

Not clear how truly global the big US banks are as anything other than a niche Investment Banking proposition in a lot of markets and how a VOR proposition suits their needs.  ABN Amro was pretty focused on Asian market expansion at the time they sponsored a VOR Entry ( I know a  guy in the bank involved in the deal)  so it made tactical sense for them at that moment in time, but probably doesn't now.  That's a lesson to consider when looking at any potential global sponsors - at any point in time there will be organisations with tactical objectives that may align to a VOR sponsorship and it's important to be able to identify them, but it would be a mistake to interpret these opportunities as opportunities to lock in enduring involvement in a RTW yacht race.

HSBC is an obvious potential global sponsor for a race or team but is currently very much on the nose right now.   Same for many other global players.

 

[shanghaisailor]

Missing my point SS, not at all doubting the strength of China at this time, the trade balances are clear testimony as you say.  They are obviously turning out export product with a value proposition that's superior in many areas.  No argument there.

But, the exploding Chinese middle class has exploding expectations.   Look at the baby formula  market...  and their brand thirst is as much a hunger for the legitimacy of the old Western brands and what it infers on them as up and comers as it is a reflection of their delay in developing national equivalents.   This is common to all rapidly developing middle classes, not a China thing. 

It's been clear for a long time that standards are lax in China in many areas.  They have tended to play fast and loose.  The Chinese record on IP theft, for example.  Consumers are let down by laxity in food contamination standards - issues with pesticides and chemicals.  Industrial health and safety standards are poor, industrial suicide looms large in the factories assembling electrnics for the West, and from time to time poor quality export food product has caused serious issues in western markets.  On the infrastructure side, the Wenzhou train crash in 2011 was put down to a combination of shoddy design and management, a bit of corruption and as a result that train has only recently been brought back up to full operation  as I understand it. 

Over time all that'll change no doubt, it's a maturity thing, but China isn't there yet.  China's recent banning of the import of much sorted waste from other countries is apparently an admission of a need to get their own house in order in these areas as anything else, and it's a good thing to see in that respect.

Picked a poor example there Dick. Anyone with any knowledge of China would know the motivation for foreign baby formula - they even limit the amount Mainland Chinese can buy when on a visit to Hong Kong. A few years ago a Chinese baby formula company added melamine to baby formula as a flaw in the testing process (global standard test) for protein content meant that the plastic melamine could enhance the test results. Hundreds of babies fell ill and a few died. The principals of the company were arrested and the CEO - who had full knowledge of the scheme - was executed. So the desire for non-Chinese baby formula wasn't a desire for western product per se it was for what was perceived as a safer product.

Love your comment about China playing fast and loose. Do you really think that when the likes of the UK and USA were further down our development curve we played any less "fast and loose". In the UK we used to send children up chimneys to clean them and in the USA they ethnically cleaned whole areas when the immigrants wanted land for themselves where they then planted cotton, and ancestors of the people who picked that still have issues with the majority it seems. A study of counties developmental time lines might serve you well.

Train crash? and they don't happen anywhere else in the world? What about collapsing bridges due to inadequate maintenance schedules ? I am sure you are aware of the concept of glass houses and stones?

Banning of imported waste? Fuck me, that has put the fox in the chicken coup with many western countries that are now wondering what the hell they do with all their waste THEY now have to deal with. It's an 'admission' by China of why should they be the rubbish tip of the world?!!!

Learn a little of a country before you start trying to cherry pick a few examples of things that have gone wrong.

On the other side FROM SOMEONE WHO LIVES HERE - they have more high speed rail than the USA - that's an easy one , the US has none. Their highway system is mind blowing. I regularly drive the length of the country from Shanghai to Guangzhou (OK - half the length of the country) and the highways are mind blowing - tunnels 4km long and longer, bridges that are amazing, off ramps to small towns to allow the locals easy access to other markets. When I lived downtown Shanghai (city of 24 million plus) I would walk home at 2300 with my laptop under my arm without the need to look behind me for a mugger. In my old home town in Scotland there are parts I wouldn't walk through during the day. Gun crime? There is none - oh, that's right they don't allow guns. This place is safe.

Sure they make mistakes and come across heavy handed sometimes but another concept for you "omelettes and eggs".

Anyway, this is supposed to be a thread about the future of the Volvo Ocean Race not the good and bad things about China.

One final point however, people talk about the Swedish ownership of the Volvo Ocean Race and how it shouldn't be distorted by visits to the Far East.

Volvo Cars is 100% owned by Geely Holdings, a CHINESE company based in Hangzhou - FACT!

Volvo AB is 8.4% owned by Geely Holdings - FACT!

It doesn't take a Nobel Mathematics Prize winner to work out that the Volvo Ocean Race is actually 54% CHINESE owned, not Swedish.

Final concept "their bat and their ball".

By the way, I am not actually annoyed by comments about China, just highly amused at how skewed the reporting in the west must be. 

Having lived in both the west and the east I have the advantage of being able to compare from first hand experience.

SS

 

[jack_sparrow]

The principals of the company were arrested and the CEO - who had full knowledge of the scheme - was executed. 

Wish the same disciplinary approach was adopted for management of this race.

 

[jack_sparrow]

It doesn't take a Nobel Mathematics Prize winner to work out that the Volvo Ocean Race is actually 54% CHINESE owned, not Swedish.

Final concept "their bat and their ball".

..and if no one shows up to play, that is all they have, "a bat and a ball".

 

[southerncross]

Before this turns into a PA argument, let's just say that the birth of nations is paved with the souls of the meek and it's evidenced that it will always be so.  Look at the poor Barbadu's and the land grab by that cunt De Niro!

 

[bigrpowr]

ok china is the best. this thread now sucks.

 

[DickDastardly]

Picked a poor example there Dick. Anyone with any knowledge of China would know the motivation for foreign baby formula - they even limit the amount Mainland Chinese can buy when on a visit to Hong Kong. A few years ago a Chinese baby formula company added melamine to baby formula as a flaw in the testing process (global standard test) for protein content meant that the plastic melamine could enhance the test results. Hundreds of babies fell ill and a few died. The principals of the company were arrested and the CEO - who had full knowledge of the scheme - was executed. So the desire for non-Chinese baby formula wasn't a desire for western product per se it was for what was perceived as a safer product.

think that example supports my point about shoddiness and poor standards in China pretty well, actually!

Love your comment about China playing fast and loose. Do you really think that when the likes of the UK and USA were further down our development curve we played any less "fast and loose". In the UK we used to send children up chimneys to clean them and in the USA they ethnically cleaned whole areas when the immigrants wanted land for themselves where they then planted cotton, and ancestors of the people who picked that still have issues with the majority it seems. A study of counties developmental time lines might serve you well.

Of course "we" played fast and loose back in the day.  When I said "it's a maturity thing" that's exactly what I meant.  No criticism of China, just a reflection of were they're at on that curve.

Banning of imported waste? Fuck me, that has put the fox in the chicken coup with many western countries that are now wondering what the hell they do with all their waste THEY now have to deal with. It's an 'admission' by China of why should they be the rubbish tip of the world?!!!

China, and other jurisdictions like Malaysia, Vietnam et al import recycled waste for reprocessing purely as a commercial endeavour, they create recycled feedstock from said waste and sell it back to the west eoytehr raw or as value added product.  It's lucrative business, and meets a lot of mutual interests.   Creates jobs in the developing world and promotes a circular economy in the west.  It has nothing to do with China being a dumping ground for the rest of the world's rubbish - though that's an easy political argument to make and it often is made by a range of vested interests, sadly.  In reality it's simple comparative advantage at work - low wage countries are good places to do this sort of work, globalisation 101.  And in China's case it's seemingly happening at the expense of local recycling and environmental standards in the face of rising middle class expectations and this is, I understand, seen as an issue by the Party.  I'm currently advising a Government in Australia on what to do to repsond to this particular Chinese policy development, as it turns out.  And the answer is ... "Wait, other jurisdictions will step up".    

Learn a little of a country before you start trying to cherry pick a few examples of things that have gone wrong.

I think I made it quite clear that I'm not in the business of criticising China, for all its stellar achievements it is what it is and it is where it is on the maturity curve.

Sure they make mistakes and come across heavy handed sometimes but another concept for you "omelettes and eggs".

I think that was in-part my point.

Anyway, this is supposed to be a thread about the future of the Volvo Ocean Race not the good and bad things about China.

By the way, I am not actually annoyed by comments about China, just highly amused at how skewed the reporting in the west must be. 

Or alternately how skewed the reporting in China must be.

Having lived in both the west and the east I have the advantage of being able to compare from first hand experience.

ditto

 

[despacio avenue]

I'm sure the VOR can probably sustain itself chasing after oil money, state money, oligarch money - IOC and FIFA has. Beijing and London were good Olympics. Sochi was not. I'm not optimistic for the upcoming World Cup. 

While I don't think a comparison can be made between the VOR and the Olympics or World Cup, basically because of the enormous expense involved with building an infrastructure for the latter two events, it takes a seriously jaundiced set of eyes to say that the Bejing Olympics were "good" Olympics. In what way? There were flagrant human rights abuses surrounding the lead up to and during the holding of the Olympics there at every level. Housing razed,  thousands of people left homeless. Millions spent on revising everything from fireworks displays to construction so that is what politically allowed. Billions spent on construction of facilities, some of which, on my last visit to Beijing, are underutilized or not used at all. American Corporations were walking a very thin and tenuous tightrope of being aware of civil rights abuses but hoping their product. London's promises of the growth and useful housing and economic development in the area of the Olympic venues has not come about. Sochi was a mess structurally and politically; the last soccer World Cup and the current one is again building dozens of massive stadiums in underused geographic areas; but at least the World Cup has millions of fans around the wold some of whom can even afford a ticket to a game. That they can see. Or they can watch it on TV at home, if they have electricity; in a bar; or a wide screen TV outside somewhere. Not so the VOR. Some of them can relate to saying around in douse but in these VOR65s? And who outside of a very small number of people have even heard of IMOCA?

The high cost of the Olympics, including the impact on or lack of existing infrastructure, while certainly not remotely close to the cost of sponsoring a stopover or a team in the now-titled VOR, to answer one poster's question, is why many US cities, most recently Boston but also Denver, Anchorage, and others, have lacked support. San Francisco battled with Larry Oracle for years over hosting the AC and it did not payoff. LA is taking a huge risk in hosting future Olympics, basing its supposedly low cost bid on using existing facilities. 

To answer why US cities aren't clamoring to host a VOR stopover, it is in my opinion both a) economics, to the extent the city has heard of the VOR at all, and 2) It really is not high or exist at all on most US citizens 's horizon of events in which they have an interest. It is a niche event in a niche, largely upper class, coastal city sport. And as the recent Newport stopover revealed, even that isn't enough. Are there cities in the US that could be successful stopovers? I believe a few were mentioned earlier upthread: Annapolis, Baltimore, possibly NYC; all can pull from large surrounding cities (DC, Philadelphia) and would have some infrastructure and a history of having ocean-related events. That (economics and lack of interest) to me explains why there are not more US sponsors. Mambo and DIck have both well-articulated that publicly held corporations are now looking more closely than ever at their ROI from marketing. As has been stated above their duty to the shareholders has resulted in, for example,  management and the Board determining that McDonald's was not going to be a named lead sponsor in the Sochi Olympics (for a variety of reasons). Though McD as usual had a very popular restaurant for the athletes to use, it was no longer paying the enormous bucks to have its name adorning everything. Considering McDonald's is continuing to expand in developing countries, it is highly unlikely that it would be interested in using its marketing dollars on a sail boat or a sailboat race as those potential customers are not the ones following the race. US banks may be flexing their muscle a little bit more with Trump looking after them, but sponsoring the VOR or a boat is not where they will be spending their money, and, as mentioned, they for the most part do not have an international reputation or presence. Sponsors have left NASCAR. 

I was somewhat surprised when SCA did not sponsor a boat for this edition of the VOR. The part of me that was not recognized that SCA had gotten quite a bit of exposure from the race with its colorful (literally), talented, and popular,  albeit overall not that successful, all-women's crew. It didn't need a do-over.  But it was a European company that like Vestas (who unfortunately got publicity for unfortunate reasons) that had a product (in SCA's case, a lot of products) to sell.  Whether Vestas will come back as a sponsor if there is another VOR is a good question they have had 2 boats in two races that experience  extremely costly accidents, and not very good finishes. Whether it is worth it so spread their wind power message is questionable. Similarly, whether the clean up the oceans" message has been impacted in a measurably large way by TTOP, 11th Hour Racing, and the related events at the stopovers is something I don't know but it would be good to find out. 

Private corporations and wealthy individuals to me are the most likely source of funding for the VOR. There are pitfalls with that, certainly, as the shit storm surrounding the new title sponsor for what was formerly Team Land Rover BAR in the AC shows.And the existing Volvo sponsorship presents inherent conflicts of interest.  Roman Abramovich would probably not be an ideal title or boat sponsor for a number of reasons.  

Skippers should not have to beg for dollars. The RO needs to put together a marketing package so that someone or some company wants to sponsor a boat, and be all in.  But the marketing data needs to be compelling. There needs to be a RD who is a businessman and a leader. That certainly does not exist at the moment. 

Anyway, there are a lot of smart people on this thread and no one at VOR is asking us. But if they were....Or maybe they are (anonymity...)

 

[jack_sparrow]

Whilst Newport's footfall traffic maybe shit at least the Race Village is in a pretty nice setting. While we obviously don't know Cardiff's numbers, the athsetics look pretty awful. 

 

[shanghaisailor]

 

[damagesmith]

Whilst Newport's footfall traffic maybe shit at least the Race Village is in a pretty nice setting. While we obviously don't know Cardiff's numbers, the athsetics look pretty awful. 

View attachment 271949

It's coastal UK, what do you expect?

 

[jack_sparrow]

Well maybe Ireland is not part of the UK anymore but just across the ditch at Galway a stopover in 2009 and finish in 2012 looks far nicer.

 

[EYESAILOR]

Whilst Newport's footfall traffic maybe shit at least the Race Village is in a pretty nice setting. While we obviously don't know Cardiff's numbers, the athsetics look pretty awful. 

View attachment 271949

It's not fair to compare crowd size with overhead images. The Welsh are smaller and much harder to see.

 

[yl75]

It doesn't take a Nobel Mathematics Prize winner to work out that the Volvo Ocean Race is actually 54% CHINESE owned, not Swedish.

There is no Mathematics Nobel prize, the fields medal is the equivalent. 

(Nobel 's wife was sleeping with a mathematician or something, most probably a legend) 

 

[Chimp too]

It's not fair to compare crowd size with overhead images. The Welsh are smaller and much harder to see.

The welsh also tend to hide downs pits

 

[southerncross]

I'd like to lodge a complaint with the OP.  Some of these posts are way too long and with no punch line at that!

 

[southerncross]

LA is taking a huge risk in hosting future Olympics, basing its supposedly low cost bid on using existing facilities.

They had better get a move on with the homeless problem.  25,000 and counting.  The thought was to evenly distribute half way houses through the LA basin and spread the load so as not over burden one community.   Welcome to the Bel Air Rehabilitation center.  Brentwood, Beverly Hills, Pacific Palisades, Irvine.  The outrage was palpable.  Red faced well to do's popping corpuscles and threatening withholding campaign contributions.  

https://www.courthousenews.com/la-city-council-approves-276-million-for-homeless-housing/

We're all guilty.  China just does it on a larger scale.

 

[southerncross]

Such restraint is unlike you SS. 

 

[paps49]

Such restraint is unlike you SS. 

 

[EYESAILOR]

The welsh also tend to hide downs pits