Wa'apa build - a few questions

[Kurtz]

Hi all, I'm about 1/2 way through building a quick and dirty double outrigger waapa. Starting to think about sail, rig and ama setups. I'll be using it for extended N/S solo coastal cruising in the tropics (trade wind)
I reckon i'll need something better than a poly tarp and a bit of bamboo, an unstayed mast is probably a no go as well.

When I started building the intention was for a one way down wind trip, a poly tarp sail was an option - but if I can sail it back efficiently into 20kts plus I'd be happier. Got close to a grand and a weeks work tied up in it already. I'm ok getting wet. The traditional sail types do not appeal - a stayed mast with main and jib is what I'm looking at

Whats doing my head in is,
do I stay as designed with submersible amas - are they up to the job in strong upwind choppy conditions? or beef the whole thing up and upsize them? is bigger better?

Any ideas on common 2nd hand mains that could work roped to a bush pole or for realistic upwind performance do I have to bite the bullet and go a proper mast (a major PITA to get, there's nothing local)

Any ideas appreciated, i'm new to all this
cheers
Simon

 

[munt]

You need to give a lot more details, such as the size and what you mean by "submersible amas." Pictures might help but if you think a couple weeks of building and no knowledge of what you're doing will get you upwind in 20 kts. and chop you are as delusional as your avatar. "The horror..."

 

[MultiThom]

Start here ... waapa blog

Wa'apa Outrigger Sailing Canoe

waapa.blogspot.com

and here... Wa'apa Project boat
Jib is likely to be useless upwind. To go upwind you will need a leeboard. Practice paddling since you will be doing a lot of it to weather.

 

[munt]

Paddling "submersible" amas into 20 knot headwinds..? And wait till you see what a rig with shrouds and a forestay does to your structure when you tension it up to go to weather! Duuuuuude, you gonna need some good marijuana, alcohol and Ibuprofin. You could probly score a Hobie 16 rig but the Hobie 16 as is will actually sail waaaaaaay better than the Waaaapaaa both upwind and downwind, all day every day 24/7.

 

[Kenny Dumas]

There’s a reason that they used to think sailing to weather was as impossible as flying. It’s really hard to do. You need flat sails that don’t stretch and get baggy and a strong well shaped board in the water that balances well with the wind force.

 

[Kenny Dumas]

The Pacific Proa leaders were Navigators (stars, weather and current) more than sailors. They didn’t sail upwind. Get really good at understanding the weather and pick your days carefully. A fixed schedule is dangerous

 

[MultiThom]

I think you guys are being a little too negative. Lotsa home built sailing canoes out there and mostly a lot of wet fun. Cheap too. I'd go with a windsurfer rig on a stub and keep it light. Here's just one wa'apa on a lake (with leeboard) and he's not pointing high, but he's making it move to weather.

 

[Kurtz]

I think you guys are being a little too negative. Lotsa home built sailing canoes out there and mostly a lot of wet fun. Cheap too. I'd go with a windsurfer rig on a stub and keep it light. Here's just one wa'apa on a lake (with leeboard) and he's not pointing high, but he's making it move to weather.

Thanks mate, they're pretty quick and simple to build too. ply and epoxy - nothing complicated

I'll definitely be making a leeboard - just gotta source some suitable timber. everything around here is either crazy heavy dense hardwood or crappy finger joined pine. from what I understand marine ply is not up to the job, shame as it's everywhere.

A one way trip is still on the table, plenty of kids up north to give it away to - they'd probably just steal it anyway

 

[Kenny Dumas]

Not negative at all, just saying it’s hard.

You need to balance the forces also, which means moving the sail or leeboard forward or backwards until the force of the wind pushes directly sideways to the leeboard Otherwise, the boat will try to turn up into the wind or fall off and you’ll continuously fight it.

Figure out a way to paddle while sailing, which means you will need both hands free while being able to sheet in and out (with your feet, knees or butt cleat)

 

[Kurtz]

Not negative at all, just saying it’s hard.

You need to balance the forces also, which means moving the sail or leeboard forward or backwards until the force of the wind pushes directly sideways to the leeboard Otherwise, the boat will try to turn up into the wind or fall off and you’ll continuously fight it.

Figure out a way to paddle while sailing, which means you will need both hands free while being able to sheet in and out (with your feet, knees or butt cleat)

The leeboard will be mounted on longitudinal cross beams between the iakos. will give me plenty of fore and aft adjustment as well as AOA <not sure if this would be of any practical use though.

I've got a 6hp honda and a big arse Maroi mate who was born to paddle, I'd rather not on either though

 

[Fat Point Jack]

Do you want to build an experimental boat or one to sail? As Munt said a Hobie or a Nacra you can get and sail for a reasonable price that has already been designed.

 

[Kurtz]

Do you want to build an experimental boat or one to sail? As Munt said a Hobie or a Nacra you can get and sail for a reasonable price that has already been designed.

I want to explore the north east coast of Australia. If I can pack enough supplies into a hobie for month long + trips, I'm all over that option.

 

[MultiThom]

I want to explore the north east coast of Australia. If I can pack enough supplies into a hobie for month long + trips, I'm all over that option.

You could just hang there and use the monsoon winds to come back when they get there. Then no upwind needed.

 

[munt]

I apologize for my negativity. Please have many funs and adventures and provide videos. Not being negative (I hope) but a months worth of supplies? As Colonel Kurtz said, "Willard, you need a very large boat." Also, just something to consider, when you change part of the design, such as the amas, it has a major impact on everything else, such as the akas. If you are young and strong and healthy please have as much fun as possible doing stupid things and later you can say, "Those olde blokes were right." Or such phrases as, "Shit, that really hurts!" Or "I shoulda just bought that 500 dollar Hobie." Etc. Repeat until you can't. Best wishes.

 

[Kurtz]

I apologize for my negativity. Please have many funs and adventures and provide videos. Not being negative (I hope) but a months worth of supplies? As Colonel Kurtz said, "Willard, you need a very large boat." Also, just something to consider, when you change part of the design, such as the amas, it has a major impact on everything else, such as the akas. If you are young and strong and healthy please have as much fun as possible doing stupid things and later you can say, "Those olde blokes were right." Or such phrases as, "Shit, that really hurts!" Or "I shoulda just bought that 500 dollar Hobie." Etc. Repeat until you can't. Best wishes.

No dramas with the advice, I asked some stupid questions (get used to that)

I should be ok with supplies, water / shelter is the main thing. Food is literally everywhere up here

 

[Russell Brown]

The Waapa is a well developed boat designed by Gary Dierking. They do go to windward with low-tech rigs, just as pacific proa's were going upwind very, very long before Columbus, both using low buoyancy ama's.

High-tech is great, but may not provide the best quality of life...

 

[ALL@SEA]

I want to explore the north east coast of Australia. If I can pack enough supplies into a hobie for month long + trips, I'm all over that option.

Hobies have done a lot of cruising. I forget the details, but 20 odd years ago someone "cruised" one from Cairns to PNG... that may've been an 18'.

 

[Kurtz]

Hobies have done a lot of cruising. I forget the details, but 20 odd years ago someone "cruised" one from Cairns to PNG... that may've been an 18'.

Jesse Martin?

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Would love to sail up the Fly, way up

I'm a fair bit into the waapa build already - reckon i'll keep going with it

 

[KONeill]

If you're building it to Gary's plans I'd stick to the plans. If you make the amas bigger, for example, you need stronger beams, everything gets heavier, etc.

Dan St. Gean built a Wa'apa years back and sailed it all over. You might see if you can get in touch with him and ask him how it went.

If it were me I'd stick with what Gary recommended, which from memory was something like 100ish ft^2 main and a 40ish ft^2 jib on a stayed mast. See if you can dig up a dinghy rig, then add reef points.

Of course if it were me I'd also ask Gary, not a bunch of internet randos...

 

[ALL@SEA]

Jesse Martin?

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Would love to sail up the Fly, way up

I'm a fair bit into the waapa build already - reckon i'll keep going with it

Nah, wasn't Jesse. I might have a dig through my old magazines and see if I can find the story.

There is something appealing about the proa concept for cruising.