Weather mark rounding

Bowchow

Anarchist
615
13
You are still sailing upwind, and within the 3 boat length circle, and boats that have rounded the mark are going DDW. Who has rights? From what I learned, the upwind boat always had rights because sailing upwind is harder. Maybe thats just the courteous thing to do.

 

USA190520

Super Anarchist
You are still sailing upwind, and within the 3 boat length circle, and boats that have rounded the mark are going DDW. Who has rights? From what I learned, the upwind boat always had rights because sailing upwind is harder. Maybe thats just the courteous thing to do.

sometimes the upwind boat has rights and sometime it doesnt...

it pays to read and understand the rules.....

 

TeamFugu

Super Anarchist
5,049
33
SLC, UT
I would think that the boats that have rounded have rights. Since there is no rooom at the mark to give, it seems to be a simple case of windward boat having to give way to the leward boat unless that rule is trumped by a port/starboard.

 

Major Tom

Super Anarchist
1,922
555
Darkest Africa
I would think that the boats that have rounded have rights. Since there is no rooom at the mark to give, it seems to be a simple case of windward boat having to give way to the leward boat unless that rule is trumped by a port/starboard.
True, but also worth noting that a boat bearing off around a mark into a right of way position needs to give the give way boat opportunity to keep clear. That is why some fleets, such as the Moths have an offset mark fairly close to the weather mark to prevent this happening.

 
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TeamFugu

Super Anarchist
5,049
33
SLC, UT
I would think that the boats that have rounded have rights. Since there is no rooom at the mark to give, it seems to be a simple case of windward boat having to give way to the leward boat unless that rule is trumped by a port/starboard.
True, but also worth noting that a boat bearing off around a mark into a right of way position needs to give the give way boat opportunity to keep clear. That is why some fleets, such as the Moths have an offset mark fairly close to the weather mark to prevent this happening.
Many high performance and large fleets are going to offsets for this reason. I prefer it over collisions and protests. I think it is far better to sail safe than to create conditions where carnage reigns.

 

TeamFugu

Super Anarchist
5,049
33
SLC, UT
I would think that the boats that have rounded have rights. Since there is no rooom at the mark to give, it seems to be a simple case of windward boat having to give way to the leward boat unless that rule is trumped by a port/starboard.

bingo.... and this is why we routinely see offset marks in large fleets.
Actually, I think I miss read the question. The boats still on the beat have rights but it has nothing to do with room at the mark. Even if there isn't an offset, I tend to swing wide of the incoming boats. I'd rather loose a place or two and have to catch back up than collide and break the boat. We had onle of the Mustos experience this first hand at the recent ISSA/MPS Nationals. Unfortunately one of the boats was badly damanged and had to be retired for the rest of the regatta. A boat that just set the kite and trying to avoid one boat couldn't see another. I had rounded wide seeing the incoming boats so I was able to miss out on the carnage.

I race for fun, so when in doubt, I give lots of room. I'll even let people go if it doesn't hurt me too much. I know there are those that think this is the wrong attitude but I've been in too many protest hearings and can't stand them. Win or loose.

 

USA190520

Super Anarchist
I would think that the boats that have rounded have rights. Since there is no rooom at the mark to give, it seems to be a simple case of windward boat having to give way to the leward boat unless that rule is trumped by a port/starboard.

bingo.... and this is why we routinely see offset marks in large fleets.
Actually, I think I miss read the question. The boats still on the beat have rights but it has nothing to do with room at the mark. Even if there isn't an offset, I tend to swing wide of the incoming boats. I'd rather loose a place or two and have to catch back up than collide and break the boat. We had onle of the Mustos experience this first hand at the recent ISSA/MPS Nationals. Unfortunately one of the boats was badly damanged and had to be retired for the rest of the regatta. A boat that just set the kite and trying to avoid one boat couldn't see another. I had rounded wide seeing the incoming boats so I was able to miss out on the carnage.

I race for fun, so when in doubt, I give lots of room. I'll even let people go if it doesn't hurt me too much. I know there are those that think this is the wrong attitude but I've been in too many protest hearings and can't stand them. Win or loose.

2 rules apply...port/stbd and windward/leeward..... port/stbd trumps W/L..... and yeah, being on the port tack layline is frought with dangers, planning ahead is wise...

nothing worse than rounding in the top only to be screwed by a straggling upwind boat on port tack....

 

Speng

Super Anarchist
4,987
13
Cincinnati, OH
Depends who's on port and who's on starboard. That rule has precedence. Then comes the whole upwind/downwind thing. On spinnaker-less boat the tack downwind is determined by which side the boom is on even if you're DDW. If a boat has borne away on starboard heading DW and you're port tacking it to the mark coming upwind you have to yield right of way.

 

MiamuhWhat

Member
347
8
BOSTON
Yeah it has nothing tod o with mark room:

Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a

mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone. However,

it does not apply

(a) between boats on opposite tacks on a beat to windward,

( B) between boats on opposite tacks when the proper course at the

mark for one but not both of them is to tack,

(c) between a boat approaching a mark and one leaving it....

Port/Starboard or Windward/Leeward with P/S trumping W/L...

 

Bowchow

Anarchist
615
13
Thanks guys! I knew it didn't have to do with room, I just said that so you knew how close I was.

 

knobblyoldjimbo

Super Anarchist
go to the UK Sails website and go through their rules animation quizes then go to the main SA page where most rules questions are discussed.

it really is important to know what's going on, losing a race/series isn't fun when it's because you don't know the rules, also getting in the way of others because you don't know them isn't very seamanlike either.

there are other resources too on the web, the ISAF web site has the rules, the appeals and the callbooks online, download them and do some reading. generally every iteration of the rules (now 2009-12) are clearer than before.

there are a few posters on the rules questions that clearly know what they're talking about and although they never declare it I think we have a couple of senior judge types here too.

 

BalticBandit

Super Anarchist
11,114
36
go to the UK Sails website and go through their rules animation quizes then go to the main SA page where most rules questions are discussed.
it really is important to know what's going on, losing a race/series isn't fun when it's because you don't know the rules, also getting in the way of others because you don't know them isn't very seamanlike either.

there are other resources too on the web, the ISAF web site has the rules, the appeals and the callbooks online, download them and do some reading. generally every iteration of the rules (now 2009-12) are clearer than before.

there are a few posters on the rules questions that clearly know what they're talking about and although they never declare it I think we have a couple of senior judge types here too.

Exactly. If you are coming in on the port tack layline, you are leeward, but port. That means that boats rounding have Right of Way, BUT under Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) 16 They cannot alter course in a manner that prevents you from "keeping clear". As one of the authors of the rules said (albeit a little inaccurately) - "there is no checkmate"

So if you are say on port 2 BL from the STB Tack weather layline, a boat rounding on STB cannot bear off into you and protest you.

OTOH if you are 4BL from the mark and they bear off, you CAN be forced to tack away to keep clear.

Go take the UK Halsey quiz. Go read the rules themselves and THEN go racing next. Don't go racing until you have done this (UK site requires registration but they are good about not spamming your).

 




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