Westerly Anarchy

[rogerball0]

Continuing on from Dylan Winter's picture quiz conundrum, i felt i should move my ramblings to a separate page and with a little inspiration from Greg for the title this will be the spot to post all things regarding this esteemed marque from the 1970's which stood for stoutly (read overbuilt) constructed, (some) very boxy-looking, (others looking so 'distinct' as to question the designers mental state and the cost and availability of psychotropic substances of the time) family sailboats.

That said some of Westerly's most popular designs were formulated in the late '60's, so there could be some leeway there (pun intended) that said these exceptionally seaworthy designs (read scaled-down battle cruisers for ex-dinghy sailor' first forays into open water sailing) were known in gale force conditions to reach a face-bending 5- 6 knots! who said the '60's wasn't about progress.

Heres a picture of what i've done to my Westerly (1971 Centaur called Solway Cloud) this week - i started putting the interior back in mine and now i've picked up much needed paid work i was thinking about building the insides out of foam although this maybe as pointless as Marcel Marceau's voice coach, i'm starting to worry about the amount of weight thats already gone into the boat via the 5 'c' packs of Wests i've bought (and used) over the last few years.

This week I used 2-part pourable foam then topped off the slight unevenness with Wests before fastening the marine ply down with A2 screws and PU adhesive.

The rest of the pictures are here: https://picasaweb.google.com/110182886418433827802

Cheers

Roger

 

[SloopJonB]

What was the purpose of filling the bigle with foam?

 

[SomethingElse]

Imagine yourself in a time and place on the internet in the mind of Roger Ball. A place were a heirloom Westerly Centaur has sexy lines, a modern stylish interior and a sail plan featuring a square top main and bow sprit.

Bravo Roger keep up the great work.

Makes me want to sit back, drink another beer and work on Something Else!

 

[sculpin]

Seriously though, you filled the bilge with foam? Where does the water go???

 

[Skol]

Sculpin - I could be wrong, but I think ... the Westerly is a twin keeler, so the bilge ain't in the middle. it's out parallel to the beam.

 

[Ishmael]

Sculpin - I could be wrong, but I think ... the Westerly is a twin keeler, so the bilge ain't in the middle. it's out parallel to the beam.

I'm just quoting this so you can't deny it when you're sober.

 

[dylan winter]

Imagine yourself in a time and place on the internet in the mind of Roger Ball. A place were a heirloom Westerly Centaur has sexy lines, a modern stylish interior and a sail plan featuring a square top main and bow sprit.

Bravo Roger keep up the great work.

Makes me want to sit back, drink another beer and work on Something Else!

Having sailed for six days and five nights with Roger I can confirm that he is a most remarkable bloke

keeps his energy level up - apart from when sleeping/snoring

amiable bloke

good sailor

can steer a straight course

I would invite him aboard for another long trip should I do one

.......

I admire his diligence with the dad boat project

but.......

speaking as the sort of bloke who likes to do the maximum amount of sailing for the minimum amount of maintenance then I could never spend six years working on a boat

but I am really looking forward to having a go on it when he finishes the super centaur - assuming I live long enough

Centaurs do have a reputation for being a bit sluggish as a sailing boat however the hull does drive along really easily. She will do four knots with bugger -all wind

it does not like being sailed on its ear but we have had six knots through the water out of mine

they also go to windward much better than they should

LG spent a lot of time tank testing the keel design

he should have spent a bit more time testing keel attachment which has been a real problem to westerly owners over the years and the costs of doing the repairs ultimately contributed to the demise of the company

Mine has been strengthened but still suffers from damp locker syndrome when sailing hard

however having a boat that can take the ground is a wonderful thing

. 26 feet and plenty of room - even though it looks like a caravan

I am currently in Orkney with mine and she has proven herself to be an excellent sea boat

on my marina tours there always seems to be a Centaur sitting there

D

 

[rogerball0]

What was the purpose of filling the bigle with foam?

Well its less than 3" at the deepest point with little access to clean or mop so decided to fill the gap.

 

[TQA]

Hmmm you are aware I hope that many Centaurs have had structural issues where the keels are mounted.

I am not sure that covering that area with foam is wise unless you are absolutely certain that the reinforcing operation has been done and done well.

 

[SloopJonB]

Interesting - I was thinking those keels looked a lot better reinforced than most current boats.

 

[rogerball0]

The keels and stubs on mine are way better than Westerly ever built them, i'm only too aware of the keel problems this boat has.

The keels formed the basis of the project. Initially after my dad died it was decided the boat needed a cosmetic tidy up however after being lifted off the ground in yard many moons ago both keels slump towards the centreline, (structural problems) boat bought home keels removed.

Boats wetted area gets planed and dried using home-brew hot vac system, especially the stubs, blisters as big as 60mm across begin to appear after the keels are removed exposing previously closed surface of keel stub. This caused in part from massive compression forces from successive boat yards 'curing' the problem by overtightening the keel bolts and thereby crushing the stub floor via the spreading washers allowing the slow disintergration of the laminate.

Internally just as bad - lots of bodged (and from the receipts i have in the boats history file) very expensive repairs removed using air chisels and hammers! By the time i got back to something resembling solid laminate some of the stub was around 3mm thick and required substantial amounts of wests and bi-axial cloth.

Keels got rebuilt, they were stripped, chemically bathed and etched then primed filled and faired using Wests and templates i made to get the original shape then sheathed under vacuum in three layers of cloth, i cut and fitted new A4 keel bolts adding 10mm thick A4 spreading washers that couldn't be bent by manual overtightening, the old ones were 5mm and each one dished and buried in the laminate and a gold sovereign put in each keel (an offering to poseidon) bolted back onto to newly made keel stubs and then everything sheathed and the joint faired in.

Pictures to accompany the above can be found here

P.S. Because i removed the internal moulding last year i have had to unpick some of the reinforcing work i had done previously which will pick up the new internal structure once built, hope that fleshes it out for you

 

[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

Hmmm you are aware I hope that many Centaurs have had structural issues where the keels are mounted.

I am not sure that covering that area with foam is wise unless you are absolutely certain that the reinforcing operation has been done and done well.

Twin keeler. The keel bolts appear to be accessible, the starboard bolts are at upper screen right.

One of the folders on his linked site show the work done to the keels. Pretty impressive work.

 

[Skol]

Sculpin - I could be wrong, but I think ... the Westerly is a twin keeler, so the bilge ain't in the middle. it's out parallel to the beam.

I'm just quoting this so you can't deny it when you're sober.

LOL. IPA logic. 2 keels, 2 bilges. makes perfect sense!

 

[TQA]

Sounds like the keel problem has been dealt with.

Nice work.

 

[GMiller]

Anybody want a nearly free Nomad? Eastern NC? Owned by my father in law x >40 years. A progressive demyelinating disease has finished his ability to get aboard ever again. Save him the slip rent. 9.9 Evinrude outboard with maybe 100hrs (I'm sure it needs a going over in the fuel system as it has sat for years), full instruments including radar (yikes!). AP, nice galley, surprisingly roomy. Very overbuilt and ugly as ass.

 

[Kymeric]

Hi Roger. IMHO it makes sense to fill in the 3" 'bilge' for a number of reasons:

- It is a 1" thick FRP hull between the keel stubs...what could leak?

- If water did accumulate, it would sit and stink, because it is essentially impossible to get a bilge pump pickup to keep it dry.

- You fixed your keels, so they will not leak.

- If you took on water, via portlights, companionway or hatches, I am sure you will have methods of dealing with this via alternate pumps.

One of my mantras in refitting my 1969 Centaur has been 'no voids': If a space serves no function and is difficult to access (of which there are few), it gets filled with 2-part foam, thus becoming a structural part of the hull. Consider the strength you have with the 1" FRP hull/1-3" thick 4lb/cf foam/12mm ply sole, glued and screwed to tabbed frames.

Keep up the good work!

Eric

 

[sculpin]

IMHO, filling in the bilge means that your ply floor will be sitting in water - where else can the water go. And even epoxy sealed ply will go off eventually. Now, I will admit to only having flown over the UK, but it is my understanding that it does rain there more than a bit - so water will get into the boat.

 

[Kymeric]

OK sculpin. You appear to have an opinion based on actual experience...COOL. Tell us more...!

 

[rogerball0]

Sculpin i don't pretend to have all the answers but as Eric and several other owners have mentioned; the shallow bilges are a ballache especially when diesel and oil gets to them, my boat stank like the engine bay, even after regular power-washing of the engine bay when i removed the back end of my boat the smell still came back.

It was only after painting the bilges out with 2 part epoxy floor paint did the odour ease, regarding moisture i dont doubt they'll be some but i'm fairly confident in wests after all i've used it when constructing wet-rooms in houses using exactly the same materials / method as i have on the floor of my boat - the last one i did was some five years ago and is used every day with no problems.

As you'll be only too aware moisture in boats is normally down to leaks and poor ventilation, i feel i have sorted most of what could leak and intend venting things like lockers and settee bases directly into the cabin to circulate via vents in the structure, i've spent many hours of my life reading books on the subject calculating air volumes and observing the best places to install active vents.

That said the only time it was noticably damp was a resent delivery trip on Dylan Winters Centaur, with the three of us in soaking wet oilies you needed heat and an open companionway to get the dampness out which we duly did.

All i can say is time will tell.

cheers