Weta anarchy

Blaise

Member
145
49
Hamilton, ON
il n'est pas nécessaire d'enlever les roues
7/10
Merci! That has to be the first time my native tongue is revealed by my autocorrect!

There is an active beach cat fleet racing every week during the (short) summer. Does anybody have experience racing against cats? Rating aside, is a weta competitive against a hobie 16, for instance?

 

Pewit

Member
There is an active beach cat fleet racing every week during the (short) summer. Does anybody have experience racing against cats? Rating aside, is a weta competitive against a hobie 16, for instance?
I have raced against cats and the Weta is not really compatible because of the high drag at low speeds until it starts planing but it turns faster and easier because of the Daggerboard. Whereas cats have a more linear performance curve with little drag especially if flying a hull - but they are slow to turn. So the Weta is somewhere between a H14 and H16 .

in Australia, the handicap Yardsticks for cats are calculated using the SCHRS formula which obviously the Weta doesn’t fit into because it’s not a cat. So we have campaigned for a long time to get off the cat list and onto the dinghy list which is based on National and international data. We finally managed it this year with a trial rating, slightly slower than the B14.

I normally race in a monohull dinghy fleet where the Weta is very competitive with other skiffs like the B14 and 29er as well as fast monos like the FD.

You can find the Australian Yardstick lists here https://www.sailingresources.org.au/class-assoc/yardsticks/

 

sail(plane)

Anarchist
678
102
I have raced against cats and the Weta is not really compatible because of the high drag at low speeds until it starts planing but it turns faster and easier because of the Daggerboard. Whereas cats have a more linear performance curve with little drag especially if flying a hull - but they are slow to turn. So the Weta is somewhere between a H14 and H16 .

in Australia, the handicap Yardsticks for cats are calculated using the SCHRS formula which obviously the Weta doesn’t fit into because it’s not a cat. So we have campaigned for a long time to get off the cat list and onto the dinghy list which is based on National and international data. We finally managed it this year with a trial rating, slightly slower than the B14.

I normally race in a monohull dinghy fleet where the Weta is very competitive with other skiffs like the B14 and 29er as well as fast monos like the FD.

You can find the Australian Yardstick lists here https://www.sailingresources.org.au/class-assoc/yardsticks/
My experience is the weta is competitive with a 29er in winds ABOVE 12KT. In low winds, it is competitive with the Lasers in up/down courses. Same vmg upwind and downwind. Frustrating to gybe all over the place and arrive at the mark at the same time as a ddw laser! And make sure you don't get inside of the Lasers ddw procession because there is now way in hell you will cross that line LOL.

But then again, if you ignore results, you always have someone to race, just different boats with different winds.

 

Tom Kirkman

Anarchist
Merci! That has to be the first time my native tongue is revealed by my autocorrect!

There is an active beach cat fleet racing every week during the (short) summer. Does anybody have experience racing against cats? Rating aside, is a weta competitive against a hobie 16, for instance?
Yes, sort of. If the wind is at least in double digits, the Weta will blow away any Hobie 14 or 14 turbo. The H16 is a different story - it's simply faster upwind than the Weta. Downwind with the screecher out and sails sheeted in tight and the boat brought up hard on the wind, you can get past them. But you have to sail a different course and try to take advantage of the Weta's much quicker turning ability. Sail it more like a skiff and you can be competitive.

Back when I was racing regularly, I usually had to give time to the Hobie 16's in lighter air because they had a wind handicap and the Weta didn't. So I was at the usual D-PN 78.5 while they came in at something like an 80.1 or whatever. When I stopped trying to sail the same lines as they did and began tacking and gybing more often in order to shave some distance off the course, I'd often beat them.

 

unShirley

Super Anarchist
1,653
251
Ventura
SCHRS formula
We have a local brainiac cat sailor that massaged the SCHRS formula last summer to come up with a rating for the Weta.  He used  the beam of just the vaka and one ama.  He also compensated for the other ama by adding a trapeze.  I can't remember the rating he came up with, 1.225? 1.252?  I'll have to ask him.  We only tried it out twice, sailing against Prindle 19s, but it was pretty accurate on those two occasions.  Hopefully, this summer we can test and tweak it some more.

 

Tom Kirkman

Anarchist
Some local clubs in this area are now allowing the Weta the same handicap as a standard Hobie 14. That's insane. Everybody likes a favorable handicap but that's ridiculous. Any Weta sailor that can't outrun a Hobie 14 with ease, in any wind, doesn't know how to sail the boat.

 

Pewit

Member
We have a local brainiac cat sailor that massaged the SCHRS formula last summer to come up with a rating for the Weta.  He used  the beam of just the vaka and one ama.  He also compensated for the other ama by adding a trapeze.  I can't remember the rating he came up with, 1.225? 1.252?  I'll have to ask him.  We only tried it out twice, sailing against Prindle 19s, but it was pretty accurate on those two occasions.  Hopefully, this summer we can test and tweak it some more.
Not much difference between this “formula” and plucking a number out of thin air. SCHRS is for cats.

 

unShirley

Super Anarchist
1,653
251
Ventura
Not much difference between this “formula” and plucking a number out of thin air. SCHRS is for cats.
I find your disparagement curious. Since there is no rating system for trimarans and the local beach cats use SCHRS, one has to make do with what is available.  You race against dinghy, I race against beach cats. IMO my friend's massaging of the SCHRS formula to try and make it work for a trimaran is quite a bit more effective than "plucking a number out of thin air."   The Weta has been around for over 15 years and no good handicap number has ever been devised for it.  At least here, locally, the beach cat fleet is making an effort to include me in their races.

 
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Tom Kirkman

Anarchist
For our mixed fleet regattas we used D-PN numbers. The 78.5 used for the Weta was, to me, very fair if the wind was in double digits, particularly if it was at least 15. Consider the Hobie 16 has a D-PN of 76.5 (but also a wind factor handicap) and the Hobie 14 is (I think) about an 86 (H14 Turbo is 84). The Weta is much closer in performance to the 16 so it always seemed fair to me.

The difficult part was the wide disparity between the Weta in light air (anything in single digits) and even moderate air. Without any wind factors a Weta in single digit winds at a 78.5 was hard pressed to beat anything.

Over the past 12 or 13 years sailing one for thousands of hours, I feel these numbers are about right for anyone that can sail the boat proficiently. I'm sure others will disagree.

Beaufort 1-2   D-PN 84

Beaufort 3      D-PN 81

Beaufort 4      D-PN 78.5

Beaufort 5      D-PN 77

 

floater

Super Duper Anarchist
4,844
748
quivira regnum
oops. looks like the Weta B Team may have broken on the first leg. https://r2ak2022.maprogress.com/#

made it about 10 miles and sailed for just over an hour. big head wind. about an 8 knot vmg. Still - plenty of other boats in similar situation.
1655136614298.png
 

Blaise

Member
145
49
Hamilton, ON
How tight are your trampolines? Having sailed beach cats where tramp tension typically adds stiffness to the platform, I am inclined to put a lot of tension. Shall I worry about putting stress on the beams?
 

martin 'hoff

Super Anarchist
2,060
980
Miami
^this. As for the line attaching the tramps and amas to the vaka, I tighten those as much as I can and check them occasionally while out sailing to re-tighten if necessary.
If you need to replace the line that ties the trampolines to the boat, how do you do this? The fabric seam/pocket is so tight I can't string a replacement line.
 

Blaise

Member
145
49
Hamilton, ON
If you need to replace the line that ties the trampolines to the boat, how do you do this? The fabric seam/pocket is so tight I can't string a replacement line.
I was able to use rigging tape to tape the new line to the old one and pull. If your tramp is cooked by the FL sub, this may get tricky.
 
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