What’s next for J?

Alaris

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Exactly.  We just finished our 18th double-handed race of the year on our J/111.  At least 12 more planned for the remainder of the year.  
Ditto on our turbo 105, although only three races down so far. Two more in the next two weeks. 

 
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Alaris

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Maryland
Exactly.  We just finished our 18th double-handed race of the year on our J/111.  At least 12 more planned for the remainder of the year.  
Our boating was locked down for almost the whole first half of the year (counting Jan and Feb for winter weather) so we’re really just getting started. We just don’t have enough stability in our race schedules because of covid so we’re just playing it by ear. If races go forward we will go. But it’s impossible to make long term (i.e. months ahead) plans like a usual season. 

 
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Swimsailor

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In the Stu Johnston interview I asked what was the next J boat.  Stu replied that something along the lines of the 121 but in the 145 size range.

We need to get this "new" 125 out of our heads.  The 125 molds were destroyed in a fire and it sounds like they have no interest in low volume builds, regardless how fast they could be on the water. They want to sell 100 boats per model, not 10.

The 121 is no slouch.  It won its class in Transpac last year.  And while I would not turn down a Transpac ride on a 125, I'm willing to bet the guys on the 121 had just as much fun with a bit more elbow room below.

 
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IMR

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In the Stu Johnston interview I asked what was the next J boat.  Stu replied that something along the lines of the 121 but in the 145 size range.

We need to get this "new" 125 out of our heads.  The 125 molds were destroyed in a fire and it sounds like they have no interest in low volume builds, regardless how fast they could be on the water. They want to sell 100 boats per model, not 10.

The 121 is no slouch.  It won its class in Transpac last year.  And while I would not turn down a Transpac ride on a 125, I'm willing to bet the guys on the 121 had just as much fun with a bit more elbow room below.
I don’t mean to be a dick, but I got a Moore 24 to Hawaii in the same time it took the 121. They were almost 2 days slower than the 125. I bet they had fun. 

 

Swimsailor

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I don’t mean to be a dick, but I got a Moore 24 to Hawaii in the same time it took the 121. They were almost 2 days slower than the 125. I bet they had fun. 
A win is a win.  But that’s kind of my point.  I don’t think J Boat customers are looking for absolute speed.  I doubt there are many buyers trying to decide between a J121 or a Moore 24 for their next transpac.

 

Alaris

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A win is a win.  But that’s kind of my point.  I don’t think J Boat customers are looking for absolute speed.  I doubt there are many buyers trying to decide between a J121 or a Moore 24 for their next transpac.
You might as well be comparing the 121 to a foiling dinghy. Their design briefs could not be more different. 

 
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IMR

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A win is a win.  But that’s kind of my point.  I don’t think J Boat customers are looking for absolute speed.  I doubt there are many buyers trying to decide between a J121 or a Moore 24 for their next transpac.
I was not trying to say it’s a 121 or a Moore 24. I was just saying the 121 is not all that fast for a 40 foot boat.  

 

Alaris

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I was not trying to say it’s a 121 or a Moore 24. I was just saying the 121 is not all that fast for a 40 foot boat.  
I agree with you there, it could use some more rig IMO. Stability is probably fine with water ballast, add crew if you like for max speed or maybe a heavier keel. The hull shape is probably one of the better (best?) big boats J has designed excluding the 125/145. 

 
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Swimsailor

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How about a J75 that can keep up with a 25 year old Melges 24?

 Unlikely. 
The J/70 was meant to be a one design.  This focus on absolute speed is kind of a waste of time.  The target market for the 70 isn't someone who wants to sail faster than a Melges 24.  I would think those cross shopping the 2 would be looking at the closest 1D fleet.  And as far as I have seen, neither one lights the PHRF world on fire.

 

Alaris

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The J/70 was meant to be a one design.  This focus on absolute speed is kind of a waste of time.  The target market for the 70 isn't someone who wants to sail faster than a Melges 24.  I would think those cross shopping the 2 would be looking at the closest 1D fleet.  And as far as I have seen, neither one lights the PHRF world on fire.
The Melges 24s I’ve raced against in PHRF regularly get clobbered by boats rating both far higher and far lower. The best boats and crews don’t bother with PHRF. 

 
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Swimsailor

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I was not trying to say it’s a 121 or a Moore 24. I was just saying the 121 is not all that fast for a 40 foot boat.  
And I'm saying it doesn't matter.  Transpac win.  Newport Bermuda win.  Bayview Mac win.  

 

garyedelman

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Loki the J/121 raced The Hook Race with a PHRF rating of 3.  She went up about 4 feet in the mast. 

She took 3rd in PHRF 2, losing to a Farr 40 rating -12, and a J/160 rating -6.

 

Roleur

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Loki the J/121 raced The Hook Race with a PHRF rating of 3.  She went up about 4 feet in the mast. 

She took 3rd in PHRF 2, losing to a Farr 40 rating -12, and a J/160 rating -6.
Sounds like it would rate something like 12 sec/mile slower than a J/125 then?  That's not bad considering it would be easier to shorthand and more comfortable in general.  Isn't the base rating of a 121 closer to 30?  

 

F18 Sailor

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An issue with the 121 IMO is cost. At that price point (close to $500k), there are a number of French and Italian built boats that are lighter, have more sail area and still with good accommodations. The problem with going even bigger is costs only go up, but Beneteau have clearly found a market for the First 50, and something in the 45-48' size range that is both lighter and more offshore capable will probably sell.

 

Swimsailor

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An issue with the 121 IMO is cost. At that price point (close to $500k), there are a number of French and Italian built boats that are lighter, have more sail area and still with good accommodations. The problem with going even bigger is costs only go up, but Beneteau have clearly found a market for the First 50, and something in the 45-48' size range that is both lighter and more offshore capable will probably sell.
J Boats have always been pricey.  But likewise, there are few brands that hold their value like a J.  But you’re right, some of the stuff in Europe is amazing.  Italia Yachts look the part at any length.  

I think J Boats’ customer base drives their design decisions.  Whatever is coming I hope it sells like crazy. 

 

Blur

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To summarize, a bigger J/121, built like a J/125 at a Beneteau price point  :lol: :lol: :lol:

J/boats understand the difference between what crew dreams about, and what owners actually buy, and by now they have lots of data points.

I would be first in line for a sportier J/121, but then there are many options including a custom build. Or a Class 40. Or sensible/economic options like the Xp-44 or Swan 42/45 that you can own for 3-4 years to do the bucket list races and re-sell quite easily. This is a tough segment with picky owners.

As hinted above, the natural step is probably the J/141 (J/121 but in J/145 size) were the feedback from the J/121 could be used to make a perfect Transpac ride for people to old for the J/125.

 




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