What brands from the 70s/80s would you resurrect?

SailMoore1

Member
258
19
California
My first boat was a Sidney Sabot. Great little boat, but not really any better or worse than the dozens of other sabot manufacturers. My vote would be the boats out of Santa Cruz.

 

Jubblies

Member
170
78
Toledo, OH
I always wondered what a J22 with a retractable bulb keel, cut out transom and a bow sprit would look like, and then the J70 came :)

 
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Laker

Super Anarchist
4,206
281
PNW
Dash 34 - only built properly with vacuum bagging, modern rudder and keel foil, and a carbon rig.  Still a great design (see the FP picture of Midnight Rambler which looks like a Dash 34 from above) but needed better execution than what was available at the time.
Laurie wanted to build that boat with a lot less freeboard, but one of the backers was a tall person, so it had to have standing headroom for 6'2" I believe.  The lower freeboard may have also helped.  In many ways like the Kirby 30s where Bruce was given a draft limit by the builders that was way too little.  (for Lac St. Louis near Montreal)  The Kirby 30 with a decent keel would be a good return.

 

12 metre

Super Anarchist
4,003
775
English Bay
Laurie wanted to build that boat with a lot less freeboard, but one of the backers was a tall person, so it had to have standing headroom for 6'2" I believe.  The lower freeboard may have also helped.  In many ways like the Kirby 30s where Bruce was given a draft limit by the builders that was way too little.  (for Lac St. Louis near Montreal)  The Kirby 30 with a decent keel would be a good return.
The "tall backer" couldn't have been Finn :D .  I suspect he was short of cash as well as stature - although maybe he received a wad of cash from the insurer for the Riotous Assembly bonfire IDK.

I like the Dash and own one - but nowhere near 6'2" headroom.  Maybe 5'10" or so at best - I"m 6'2" and have to slouch a bit inside.  But I'm okay with that on any boat so long as I don't have to bend my back. 

The story I heard was similar but a slightly different twist - they ended up making the cabin taller was the one I heard - but your freeboard one sounds more likely - they do have a fair amount of freeboard.

Great boats but could use more SA and RM IMO.  The keel always seemed to me like it was designed more for marketing purposes -  pretty much every boat of that era designed with aspirations of racing in mind had to have a trapezoidal keel like the IOR boats.  While generally a good hydrodynamic planform it also results in a keel with high CG, which doesn't really suit a relatively narrow boat like the Dash (10' beam), and especially one with such a narrow BWL (<8 ft).

Rudder had an odd and rather small planform and my gut tells me LD didn't design that.

Rig wise, I've wondered if a MH version of sufficient height would have worked out better.  My understanding is that the Dash 34 was sort of a followup of LD's Wednesday Night Racer (there are some comments and photos of the WNR design in either "A Lighter Ton" or "Charge of the Light Brigade" - one of the two) which looked like a MH version of the Dash with a shorter cabin IIRC.

 
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Maxx Baqustae

Super Anarchist
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Canadian Southwest
The "tall backer" couldn't have been Finn :D .  I suspect he was short of cash as well as stature - although maybe he received a wad of cash from the insurer for the Riotous Assembly bonfire IDK.

I like the Dash and own one - but nowhere near 6'2" headroom.  Maybe 5'10" or so at best - I"m 6'2" and have to slouch a bit inside.  But I'm okay with that on any boat so long as I don't have to bend my back. 

The story I heard was similar but a slightly different twist - they ended up making the cabin taller was the one I heard - but your freeboard one sounds more likely - they do have a fair amount of freeboard.

Great boats but could use more SA and RM IMO.  The keel always seemed to me like it was designed more for marketing purposes -  pretty much every boat of that era designed with aspirations of racing in mind had to have a trapezoidal keel like the IOR boats.  While generally a good hydrodynamic planform it also results in a keel with high CG, which doesn't really suit a relatively narrow boat like the Dash (10' beam), and especially one with such a narrow BWL (<8 ft).

Rudder had an odd and rather small planform and my gut tells me LD didn't design that.

Rig wise, I've wondered if a MH version of sufficient height would have worked out better.  My understanding is that the Dash 34 was sort of a followup of LD's Wednesday Night Racer (there are some comments and photos of the WNR design in either "A Lighter Ton" or "Charge of the Light Brigade" - one of the two) which looked like a MH version of the Dash with a shorter cabin IIRC.
Do mean like this? 

_IGP4351.JPG

 

TheFugitive

New member
11
0
Vancouver
I would 100% revive the Hotfoot Brand! While the Hotfoot team may not have been the best business people, Doug Hemphill got something very right with the 27, 30, and 31! I wish they'd stuck around long enough to make a 37 or 40!

 

Alex W

Super Anarchist
3,346
322
Seattle, WA
It would be fun to see what Express/Alsberg would do in 2018, but I think that a lot of the heart in the brand came from Carl Schumacher who sadly wouldn't be designing the current boats.  Likewise I'd love to see what Olson would do these days.

I think C&C is a good choice otherwise.  Has anyone has as solid of a run making racer/cruisers across the years?

Hotfoot is an interesting choice.  I heavily considered a Hotfoot 31 (before buying the Express 37) and just couldn't come to an agreement on price with the seller.  I liked the design a lot and it was fun to sail.

 

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,372
2,179
Wet coast.
The "tall backer" couldn't have been Finn :D .  I suspect he was short of cash as well as stature - although maybe he received a wad of cash from the insurer for the Riotous Assembly bonfire IDK.

I like the Dash and own one - but nowhere near 6'2" headroom.  Maybe 5'10" or so at best - I"m 6'2" and have to slouch a bit inside.  But I'm okay with that on any boat so long as I don't have to bend my back. 

The story I heard was similar but a slightly different twist - they ended up making the cabin taller was the one I heard - but your freeboard one sounds more likely - they do have a fair amount of freeboard.

Great boats but could use more SA and RM IMO.  The keel always seemed to me like it was designed more for marketing purposes -  pretty much every boat of that era designed with aspirations of racing in mind had to have a trapezoidal keel like the IOR boats.  While generally a good hydrodynamic planform it also results in a keel with high CG, which doesn't really suit a relatively narrow boat like the Dash (10' beam), and especially one with such a narrow BWL (<8 ft).

Rudder had an odd and rather small planform and my gut tells me LD didn't design that.

Rig wise, I've wondered if a MH version of sufficient height would have worked out better.  My understanding is that the Dash 34 was sort of a followup of LD's Wednesday Night Racer (there are some comments and photos of the WNR design in either "A Lighter Ton" or "Charge of the Light Brigade" - one of the two) which looked like a MH version of the Dash with a shorter cabin IIRC.
The "tall backer" definitely could not stand up in the boat, except under the open hatch, but he could sleep in all the berths!  I think we agree that a bit more RM would allow more SA especially downwind, which is the boat's weak point.

The rumour about the rudder is that there was a mould lying around the shop for another boat, and it was close in size and shape, so they didn't bother building a new one according to the design from LD.  When I ground mine down to the glass last year for fairing it looked like they had taken a rudder from another boat, installed a slightly longer shaft and built up a few inches around the shaft at the top of the rudder.  The top two inches of the rudder was a different layup.  Definitely a frankenrudder.

rudder.jpg

 

jerseyguy

Super Anarchist
It would be fun to see what Express/Alsberg would do in 2018, but I think that a lot of the heart in the brand came from Carl Schumacher who sadly wouldn't be designing the current boats.  Likewise I'd love to see what Olson would do these days.

I think C&C is a good choice otherwise.  Has anyone has as solid of a run making racer/cruisers across the years?

Hotfoot is an interesting choice.  I heavily considered a Hotfoot 31 (before buying the Express 37) and just couldn't come to an agreement on price with the seller.  I liked the design a lot and it was fun to sail.
Alsberg brothers and Carl Schumacher.  YES!,

 

12 metre

Super Anarchist
4,003
775
English Bay
I would 100% revive the Hotfoot Brand! While the Hotfoot team may not have been the best business people, Doug Hemphill got something very right with the 27, 30, and 31! I wish they'd stuck around long enough to make a 37 or 40!
I've always been a fan of the Hotfoots (have owned 2 - hull #1 and #2 in various eras).   May have been a bit on the pricey side at the time.  Their main problem IMO was coming to market around 1981 - just as the local economy went into a huge recession.  The same could possibly be said for Dash Marine as well.

 
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12 metre

Super Anarchist
4,003
775
English Bay
The "tall backer" definitely could not stand up in the boat, except under the open hatch, but he could sleep in all the berths!  I think we agree that a bit more RM would allow more SA especially downwind, which is the boat's weak point.

The rumour about the rudder is that there was a mould lying around the shop for another boat, and it was close in size and shape, so they didn't bother building a new one according to the design from LD.  When I ground mine down to the glass last year for fairing it looked like they had taken a rudder from another boat, installed a slightly longer shaft and built up a few inches around the shaft at the top of the rudder.  The top two inches of the rudder was a different layup.  Definitely a frankenrudder.

View attachment 294101
I think Lebron James could sleep in all the berths.

I heard a similar rumour about the rudder and it is the most likely explanation.

 

Crash

Super Anarchist
5,195
1,100
SoCal
I think C&C is a good choice otherwise.  Has anyone has as solid of a run making racer/cruisers across the years?
J-Boats?  1977 to present.  But they are not really a builder, so don't know if we can count them in the same way you'd count C&C, etc

 

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