What Does Gun Violence Really Cost?

[slatfatf]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

So how are we gonna collect that money from the gang bangers, the suiciders, the crazies and law enforcement?......

Insurance for all gun owners except law enforcement.

For one thing, that puts costs on people who are not part of the problem, and does nothing to deal with the vast majority of the deaths and associated costs, most of which are suicides and criminals who could never and would never purchase insurance.

Second, why exempt law enforcement? They are no more immune to misuse of a gun than anyone else who is not forbidden from legally owning a gun. The only point of exempting law enforcement from all these stupid proposals is to split them off from the general population so as to not lose their support. There is no legitimate reason for doing so.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

I assume you read this little tidbit in that article?

Each year more than 11,000 people are murdered with a firearm, and more than 20,000 others commit suicide using one.

Kinda change$ the whole game now, donut?....

No change. Same old, tired game.

As a right-to-die supporter, I believe our right to life includes the right to destroy our own lives and that right implies a choice about how to go about it.

I just don't buy the idea that society SHOULD prevent a person like Phil Bolger from killing himself as he did. Whether we can is another question, and I don't believe we can, but I don't think we should even if it could somehow be made to work.

 

[Jim M]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

So how are we gonna collect that money from the gang bangers, the suiciders, the crazies and law enforcement?......

Insurance for all gun owners except law enforcement.

For one thing, that puts costs on people who are not part of the problem, and does nothing to deal with the vast majority of the deaths and associated costs, most of which are suicides and criminals who could never and would never purchase insurance.

Second, why exempt law enforcement? They are no more immune to misuse of a gun than anyone else who is not forbidden from legally owning a gun. The only point of exempting law enforcement from all these stupid proposals is to split them off from the general population so as to not lose their support. There is no legitimate reason for doing so.

Fines and confiscation handles those that do not want to be accountable. The state already indemnifies law enforcement, there is no reason for LEO to incur out of pocket expense.

 

[Jim M]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

I assume you read this little tidbit in that article?

Each year more than 11,000 people are murdered with a firearm, and more than 20,000 others commit suicide using one.

Kinda change$ the whole game now, donut?....

No change. Same old, tired game.

As a right-to-die supporter, I believe our right to life includes the right to destroy our own lives and that right implies a choice about how to go about it.

I just don't buy the idea that society SHOULD prevent a person like Phil Bolger from killing himself as he did. Whether we can is another question, and I don't believe we can, but I don't think we should even if it could somehow be made to work.

I'm going to assume that most people who commit suicide use legal firearms to accomplish their goal. If that is true, then they would have had insurance covering the weapon. If not, then gun companies should carry blanket insurance that covers the cost.

 

[slatfatf]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

So how are we gonna collect that money from the gang bangers, the suiciders, the crazies and law enforcement?......

Insurance for all gun owners except law enforcement.

For one thing, that puts costs on people who are not part of the problem, and does nothing to deal with the vast majority of the deaths and associated costs, most of which are suicides and criminals who could never and would never purchase insurance.

Second, why exempt law enforcement? They are no more immune to misuse of a gun than anyone else who is not forbidden from legally owning a gun. The only point of exempting law enforcement from all these stupid proposals is to split them off from the general population so as to not lose their support. There is no legitimate reason for doing so.

Fines and confiscation handles those that do not want to be accountable. The state already indemnifies law enforcement, there is no reason for LEO to incur out of pocket expense.

There are plenty of LE gun misuses while off duty, range accidents, crime, suicides, etc. So if you are going to mandate it for everyone else, it should be mandated for police as well, unless you are going to collect their service weapon and store it while they are off duty.

Second, I don't see how fines and confiscations work for people who are already forbidden from owning a gun and therefor already committing a crime by possessing one. If the police know that someone has an illegal gun, they could simply confiscate it and throw the person in jail, thereby obviating the need for any insurance. The problem is that the people who generate most of the costs are not willing to play by the rules. Adding more rules will not help that.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

I assume you read this little tidbit in that article?

Each year more than 11,000 people are murdered with a firearm, and more than 20,000 others commit suicide using one.

Kinda change$ the whole game now, donut?....

No change. Same old, tired game.

As a right-to-die supporter, I believe our right to life includes the right to destroy our own lives and that right implies a choice about how to go about it.

I just don't buy the idea that society SHOULD prevent a person like Phil Bolger from killing himself as he did. Whether we can is another question, and I don't believe we can, but I don't think we should even if it could somehow be made to work.

I'm going to assume that most people who commit suicide use legal firearms to accomplish their goal. If that is true, then they would have had insurance covering the weapon. If not, then gun companies should carry blanket insurance that covers the cost.

I don't see how gun companies can be held responsible for criminal misuse of their products.

Do we insure other things that people use to kill themselves? Who would be the beneficiary of Phil Bolger's policy, anyway? And what were the "costs to society" of his death that needed to reimbursed to... well, someone?

 

[Jim M]

LenP,

I doubt the numbers of range accidents, crime, or even suicide is significant for LEO, but since they are on call 24/7 the state should indemnify their "mistakes" that does not mean the state should cover personal weapons. Secondly, fines and confiscations for the lack of auto insurance has been a workable solution for many states. Certainly, it is better that doing nothing.

 

[Jim M]

Tom Ray,

We hold car companies responsible, there is no reason why gun companies should be exempt from some level of responsibility.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

Do we hold private airplane makers responsible for private airplane violence ?

 

[Jim M]

Do we hold private airplane makers responsible for private airplane violence ?

No, they have insurance.

 

[Jim M]

I'd really love to see a complete racial, age, profession, sex, mental faculties and situational breakdown of why & who are committing these 11,000 'murders' a year.....

Unfortunately the NRA blocks most attempts to do just that.

Is self defense 'murder'? Is a LEO killing a bad guy 'murder'?

Hmmmm.....

Nope to both.

 

[nannygovtsucks]

Should firearms manufacturers get a bonus when one of their firearms is used to prevent a crime or kill a bad guy?

 

[Jim M]

Should firearms manufacturers get a bonus when one of their firearms is used to prevent a crime or kill a bad guy?

Insurance should include lower premiums for efficient use.

 

[slatfatf]

Please see my L.A. Times article I posted upstairs. Kail authorities not only KNOW the names of the 20,000 convicted felons that have guns right now, but the majority of their addresses. But supposedly Sukramento 'can't' find $20 million bucks laying around to hire more LEO's to go pick them up. Which is complete and total bull shit......

If the story is accurate, that is really pathetic.

 

[slatfatf]

Please see my L.A. Times article I posted upstairs. Kail authorities not only KNOW the names of the 20,000 convicted felons that have guns right now, but the majority of their addresses. But supposedly Sukramento 'can't' find $20 million bucks laying around to hire more LEO's to go pick them up. Which is complete and total bull shit......

If the story is accurate, that is really pathetic.

Yups. So once again, Kali has $20 million bucks in an account that came from us legit gun buyer$ background check$----yet they won't use it to get the 35,000 guns away from people they already know are not legally allowed to own guns.

Make any sense to you?.....

Makes no sense to me, but I don't think like a politician. If your goal is to consolidate power and influence, then I could picture scenarios where it makes sense. Politicians don't solve problems because there is no money in solving problems, only in declaring "war" on stuff. Solve the drug problem? No money or power is awarded. Declare a "war on drugs", you get more power, more money budgeted, more laws passed, more people hired, and a bigger govt. A "war on drugs" makes no sense if you want to solve a drug problem, but it sure as shit does if you want to amass power and wealth. I am going to guess it is something like that.

 

[Point Break]

I'll read the article fully later as I find the statistical assertions very surprising........specifically I'm curious about the methodology because 33,000 deaths seems higher than I would expect. So I'll read it fully later when I have time but.........

But I gotta tell you.............I read the first few paragraphs and 1) spare me the drama and most importantly 2) the ER Doc intubated her through the rib cage?? Huh?? Unless things have REALLY changed in the trauma rooms across the nation.............there simply isn't a way to intubate someone through their rib cage. An emergency trach above the sternal notch......perhaps but that would be because the oral and upper airway was blocked. Through the rib cage? No..........and by the way.......if you are intubated....you are not wailing like a dog as described so dramatically. You are not moving any air over your vocal chords because there is a tube passing between them. What I'm guessing they mean is the Doc inserted a chest tube into the chest through the rib cage to decompress a tension pneumothorax or a hemothorax both of which can be immediate life threatening conditions which impede adequate breathing. I did those as a paramedic many times both with a dart (or tube) and with a needle. If they got that so wrong in the first couple paragraphs of a intensive 6 month investigation report.....makes me wonder about the methodology.

If they are intubating the trachea through the rib cage that would be a thing to see..................I'd love to know if its now a procedure done in the ED or Trauma Room.........

On a side note, I did once see a guy I brought in with a chest shot who was headed downhill very rapidly. We hit the doors and he was unconscious with nearly no BP. The trauma surgeon immediately cracked his chest (which is a very impressive thing to watch) and found a hole in his heart in the left ventricle bleeding out. He grabbed a urinary catheter that has a balloon on the end that once inserted in the urethra is inflated to keep the catheter in place. He stuck it in the whole in the heart and inflated the balloon thus sealing the hole and off to the OR they went. Pretty frigging cool shit............so I'd not rule out some off the wall through the rib cage intubation...........but I'd need to read it as a possible procedure elsewhere than Mother Jones........I just don't see how its even anatomically possible.

 

[Saorsa]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

I assume you read this little tidbit in that article?

Each year more than 11,000 people are murdered with a firearm, and more than 20,000 others commit suicide using one.

Kinda change$ the whole game now, donut?....

Did they buy life insurance first? Some of this may be attributed to suicide by the evil insurance companies to avoid payment.

 

[Mike in Seattle]

private airplanes murder more people / private airplanes in US,

, than guns self murder people / guns in US

 

[jocal505]

Here's WaPo on this subject:Gun assault injuries alone cost taxpayers almost half a billion dollars a year.

Bloomberg put it this way: Shootings Costing U.S. $174 Billion Show Burden of Gun Violence.

Cook and Ludvig have authored numerous gun studies, they wrote a book on the thread title.

Wiki has an article on the costs of gun violence (and touches on the psychological damage which results):

 

[nannygovtsucks]

The clown car has just arrived.